ThanksAJ in Car Accident
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
If you compare the two on snow, FWD is just better.
How? It has less control, it is dramatically more dangerous.
You're just 100% incorrect. The weight of the engine and trans sitting right on the wheel gives traction. You can start, you can stop. Much more safe than RWD.
That's exactly why it is dangerous. All the traction is in the front... that's what makes the car go into a spin. We are very aware of the additional traction. It is that that traction is what kills you is what those who live in the snow belt are painfully aware of. It's an illusion of control, it's actually a dramatic loss of control.
I explained about this earlier in the thread. It's the common myth that the "extra traction" adds safety.
You are missing HOW a car stops. If you don't have snow like we do in the NE, you are likely not used to dealing with the level of it that is normal there. FWD cars want to spin the moment you take your foot off of the gas. It's basic physics. Under truly dangerous conditions, you will never even get your foot to the brake before they are in a spin.
you will if you drive what my dad called rabbit footed, one foot on each pedal.
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Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame. You can't get to your brakes at driving speed in a FWD without traction issues from the engine unless you are clutching it out first. We are talking about serious snow and ice here. If the issue is a dusting, then the issue is people not knowing how to drive. What is "six months of the year" driving in NY is unheard of, even for Toronto.
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@MattSpeller said:
OK, perhaps I'm slow today. Please explain to me how the driving wheel stops the car and not the brakes.
It's not what STOPs, it, it is what puts you into a slide before your foot touches the brakes. The moment your foot is off of the gas, the engine drags your driving wheels. In truly icy conditions, you have already lost traction from that. When you hit the brakes your wheels are already not moving with the road and possibly not even still facing forward. Brakes are only useful when your wheels are turning with the highway beneath them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame.
Please explain to me what is stopping you then.
Answer is traction.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame.
Please explain to me what is stopping you then.
Stopping ME is my brakes, because I can safely get to them because I know how to drive.
What stops people in FWD is normally a snow bank.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame.
Please explain to me what is stopping you then.
Answer is traction.
Sure, the traction from the side of your car slamming into a birm or a wall.
You are missing that we are talking about snow here.
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Why cant people just agree to disagree sometimes?
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@alex.olynyk said:
Why cant people just agree to disagree sometimes?
Because he's wrong and it pleases me to point it out lol
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@alex.olynyk said:
Why cant people just agree to disagree sometimes?
Because that's just something people say when they have realized that they are wrong but don't want to admit it
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I have learned a lot from this convo.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame.
Please explain to me what is stopping you then.
Answer is traction.
We are literally talking about a situation where your car goes into a spin. Sure, traction stops you, eventually. But that traction might be from your wheel going sideways, or from hitting debris, other cars or the side of the road. IF your brakes have the traction to stop you, then you aren't talking about the kinds of conditions we are discussing. We are taking about slick, icy conditions where your brakes can't safety stop you, which is a HUGE portion of the year in the NE - it's driving conditions we have to live with day in , day out and can't avoid with snow days or whatever.
Bottom line, if you think the brakes CAN stop you safely, then we are simply discussing different weather conditions.
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@scottalanmiller said:
You are missing that we are talking about snow here.
No I'm very clear about it and you're making up wishy washy nonsense about how less traction is better than more. That's frankly just incorrect.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
You are missing that we are talking about snow here.
No I'm very clear about it and you're making up wishy washy nonsense about how less traction is better than more. That's frankly just incorrect.
Why do you feel that loss of control has no value and traction does?
If you believe that traction is always better, then pull the e-break at highway speeds and see what happens. Does that worry you? Why? All traction is good, right?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Trust me, if your brakes are stopping you, you're not seeing the conditions we worry about and are driving in situations we consider tame.
Please explain to me what is stopping you then.
Answer is traction.
We are literally talking about a situation where your car goes into a spin. Sure, traction stops you, eventually. But that traction might be from your wheel going sideways, or from hitting debris, other cars or the side of the road. IF your brakes have the traction to stop you, then you aren't talking about the kinds of conditions we are discussing. We are taking about slick, icy conditions where your brakes can't safety stop you, which is a HUGE portion of the year in the NE - it's driving conditions we have to live with day in , day out and can't avoid with snow days or whatever.
Bottom line, if you think the brakes CAN stop you safely, then we are simply discussing different weather conditions.
Sweet - now tell me how RWD gives you any advantage.
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@MattSpeller Read his earlier posts
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Not to play devil's advocate, but if you had AWD or 4x4 you wouldn't be spinning in the first place.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
You are missing that we are talking about snow here.
No I'm very clear about it and you're making up wishy washy nonsense about how less traction is better than more. That's frankly just incorrect.
Why do you feel that loss of control has no value and traction does?
If you believe that traction is always better, then pull the e-break at highway speeds and see what happens. Does that worry you? Why? All traction is good, right?
Traction is control, traction is how you maintain control. When your drive wheels have the majority of the weight of your car sitting on them it's much easier to maintain traction and thus control.
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@MattSpeller said:
Sweet - now tell me how RWD gives you any advantage.
I explained it pretty thoroughly. The dragging wheels are BEHIND you, so the car slows while wanting to face forward... like dragging an anchor or parachute. The car wants to go in a straight line.
I'm unclear where you are confused on where the drag comes from.
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@MattSpeller said:
Traction is control, traction is how you maintain control.
This whole conversation is about how that is a myth.
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@MattSpeller said:
When your drive wheels have the majority of the weight of your car sitting on them it's much easier to maintain traction and thus control.
Completely untrue, as we've said and demonstrated above. What part of "spinning bad" do you think I'm wrong about?
How do you explain the e-brake problem if traction is always control?
