Cisco vs. Polycom - Phone System
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$0.02 - Cisco's phone system seems designed to be obtuse, obscure and exceptionally difficult for the average punter to sit down and work with. Comparing the state of the art Cisco system I had previously to the ancient and crusty Mitel system I have currently, I'd take the Mitel every day. Easy to use, easy to understand.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Let's back up a little. Instead of only looking at the phones it sounds like there is an issue with a bad provider. What provider are you using and how are you limited to them? How are they achieving lock in?
It's a provider called TDS (tdstelecom I believe). When he inquired about going with an Asterisk setup, the provider said "Nope, nope. You can't use Asterisk with us. You have to use a setup like Cisco." I was told it was how they port the numbers... He's limited to them because there is literally NO other company in the area. There is one single company that services all the surrounding towns within about a 40-45 mile radius...
Wait, are you not on VoIP? That's the issue. Can you not move to modern telephony? I can come to your town and would never even know TDS existed because I'm on VoIP and my phone lines come with me anywhere. TDS has nothing to do with my phone lines.
Right. Just received an email.. He wanted a provider (who he's migrate to) to host the phone service, but they told him that they didn't have the rights to port the numbers. He talked about possibly having to convert his POTS lines to PRI and see how many numbers he can port...
Drop the numbers, that's your best bet. You are being held hostage and every day you leave the numbers there they have you more and more hostage. Move to new numbers immediately and slowly phase people over. Get them on your website immediately. The cost of staying with this provider is already huge and will only grow over time. You are locked into a ridiculous system and are already being extorted.
This is probably going to be your only option. Small telcoms seem to be holding onto their local exchanges with a death grip I have no idea why other companies aren't bringing competition in.
Because they literally own the customers and there is no way to compete. It is actually a legal monopoly and there is no way out but to abandon the numbers.
Oh, I didn't realize that I thought it was limitations on circuits...
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@scottalanmiller said:
So.... what is trapping you with your current numbers? Is it that customers already know them? You have advertised them heavily? What makes you unable to change your phone numbers?
This is common, I'm just trying to work out your unique strategy here.
Yikes. So he told me the school board will not allow phone number changes.
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First step.... reach out to voip.ms and attempt a number port. See if they can do it. The local telecom will happily lie to keep you locked in. But a federal port request is not something that they can lie about. If they are required to port the number it will be ported and the issue will be solved.
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@MattSpeller said:
$0.02 - Cisco's phone system seems designed to be obtuse, obscure and exceptionally difficult for the average punter to sit down and work with. Comparing the state of the art Cisco system I had previously to the ancient and crusty Mitel system I have currently, I'd take the Mitel every day. Easy to use, easy to understand.
Cisco relies on this back door deals with phone companies to pressure people into buying their crappy PBXs. I can't imagine anyone buying one in an open market. They offer nothing of value.
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@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So.... what is trapping you with your current numbers? Is it that customers already know them? You have advertised them heavily? What makes you unable to change your phone numbers?
This is common, I'm just trying to work out your unique strategy here.
Yikes. So he told me the school board will not allow phone number changes.
Oh, so someone on the board is getting paid off. Little doubt there. This is exactly what corruption in America looks like.
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Basically you have a school board on the take here and they are now running IT directly, legally or illegally. I would have nothing to do with the situation. The voters have spoken and they want corrupt officials making money off of the school budget - stealing from the students' educations. Don't get involved here if you are not willing to go to the news and make it public and a big deal out of it. Go high or, far better, stop caring because caring will only get you hurt. Or get students to stand up for their school budgets being stolen by the school board. But don't be the person who cares more than the school cares.
Remember schools are not about education or the students. They are about politics and local business. Go with Cisco, stick with TDS. Keep your head down. This is one of those cases where there is no benefit to IT trying to "do the right thing".
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@coliver said:
This is probably going to be your only option. Small telcoms seem to be holding onto their local exchanges with a death grip I have no idea why other companies aren't bringing competition in.
Because the municipality sold them exclusive rights
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@scottalanmiller said:
Cisco relies on this back door deals with phone companies to pressure people into buying their crappy PBXs. I can't imagine anyone buying one in an open market. They offer nothing of value.
Not only that, they charge you an arm, leg and half your soul for the privilege.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, so someone on the board is getting paid off. Little doubt there. This is exactly what corruption in America looks like.
I think you're being overly dramatic - I seriously doubt anyone is being paid off, changing numbers for a business isn't an easy thing.
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
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It is very, very tempting to want to care more than you should and want IT to do an amazing job - even better than the business that you work for wants you to do. In normal business (where making money matters) it is hard enough to overcome the will of the business when it comes to trying to do the right thing for the shareholders. In a non-profit or a government agency you pretty much have to accept that you are there to follow directions and you have to recognize when to step away and not get involved or when not to stick your neck out or not to rock the boat. It's depressing but this is the real world and IT deals with big budgets and is often a place where corruption is attempted to be hidden because it is hard to argue that Cisco and the "only telephone provider" isn't a viable option. Sure to IT people it is immediately apparent that those aren't even remotely reasonable options, but to voters who don't pay attention and don't ask it seems like a reasonable assumption. Little do they take the time to realize that we are talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of education funds being siphoned off through this.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
This is probably going to be your only option. Small telcoms seem to be holding onto their local exchanges with a death grip I have no idea why other companies aren't bringing competition in.
Because the municipality sold them exclusive rights
In this case, because they bought the politicians. But same difference.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Cisco relies on this back door deals with phone companies to pressure people into buying their crappy PBXs. I can't imagine anyone buying one in an open market. They offer nothing of value.
Not only that, they charge you an arm, leg and half your soul for the privilege.
Is corruption like this as rampant in Canada?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, so someone on the board is getting paid off. Little doubt there. This is exactly what corruption in America looks like.
I think you're being overly dramatic - I seriously doubt anyone is being paid off, changing numbers for a business isn't an easy thing.
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
I'm going to agree with @Dashrender I know several school board members... they are incompetent for sure but very few are actually corrupt... or they are competent enough to hide their corruption. I'm going with the former though because of experience.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, so someone on the board is getting paid off. Little doubt there. This is exactly what corruption in America looks like.
I think you're being overly dramatic - I seriously doubt anyone is being paid off, changing numbers for a business isn't an easy thing.
It's extremely easy and there is no reason that the school board should be involved in the under the hood details of IT needs. That the school board even knows to block a massive cost reduction project is weird, let alone that they would take the time to block it and protect a local business that is screwing the students.
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@Dashrender said:
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
I would not go out of your way to make the school board look like fools in public, which is a very real possibility if they have been blocking a cost saving measure for a long time. The savings you show for the future also represents the money lost in the past.
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Depending on the size of the district, something like changing phone numbers might not be at the school level, it might require board approval.
At that point it's not about a budget.. it's about communications.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, so someone on the board is getting paid off. Little doubt there. This is exactly what corruption in America looks like.
I think you're being overly dramatic - I seriously doubt anyone is being paid off, changing numbers for a business isn't an easy thing.
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
I'm going to agree with @Dashrender I know several school board members... they are incompetent for sure but very few are actually corrupt... or they are competent enough to hide their corruption. I'm going with the former though because of experience.
It does not take many being corrupt. One corrupt and many incompetent is all that is needed. Very likely the one that is corrupt is also an investor in the telecom or the local Cisco reseller or both. These things are generally super simple and insanely basic. It doesn't take conspiracy or complexity. Local business owner sits on school board and votes in his own interest rather than in the interest of the students. It's as simple as it gets.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
I would not go out of your way to make the school board look like fools in public, which is a very real possibility if they have been blocking a cost saving measure for a long time. The savings you show for the future also represents the money lost in the past.
What makes you think they know anything about the cost savings portion of this discussion? I would consider it more likely that they were simply told - hey we are looking to change phone systems.. but a specific one would require a phone number change.. is that ok?
and they responded uh. .no.. and it was dropped.
If the school board had any followup questions like, well, what system are you looking at and why the need for a number change - likely the answer was - uh we'll get back to you... and then those presenting to the board decided it was to much work and just are now telling the OP .. yeah they said no.
Yup, I'm reading a lot into it.. but it's all politics.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That said, it might be worth the effort to make a presentation to take to the next public school board meeting and make your case for changing, assuming you can't port the numbers to a SIP provider.
I would not go out of your way to make the school board look like fools in public, which is a very real possibility if they have been blocking a cost saving measure for a long time. The savings you show for the future also represents the money lost in the past.
This... if your board is blocking it I don't think I would stick my neck out like this.
