ZeroTier and DNS issues
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@dafyre said:
What I have done on my own network at home is build my own ZeroTier router... it has 1 Interface on my LAN, and 1 x ZeroTier interface...and that ZeroTier client has the Gateway option activated.
And it routes to my Home Network. NB: I had to add a route to my ZeroTier IP space on my home router as well, so traffic could flow both ways...
IE: On my home router, I had a route for 192.168.100.0/24 (zero tier ip space) to 192.168.1.179 (LAN interface of my zero tier router).
On remote Client devices, I add a route to 192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.100.179 (ZT IP addresss of my ZTRouter).
This seems to work. Arguably it would work better if I had more RAM to add to my VM, lol.
This solves the routing issues.. how do you solve the DNS issue? Unless you're running a server at home, I'm guessing either you're using a Host file or IP addresses.
One thought - you could install DNS on the Linux router you stood up.. and create the entries you need DNS for... this would allow everything to remain separate, but would require manual maintenance.
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What does ZeroTier use for it's DNS normally?
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@Dashrender Right now ZeroTier does nothing for DNS. It virtualizes at L2 and that's it. It does handle IP address management if you enable that feature, but otherwise it just moves packets around.
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@Dashrender said:
What does ZeroTier use for it's DNS normally?
That Pertino actually "does" DNS is a completely unique feature and it is only available in their enterprise packages, their free and entry level packages do not offer it. I know of no one else hijacking DNS and manipulating it in that way.
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It is a huge part of the power, and the expense, of Pertino.
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So let me check my understanding: Pertino hijacks and manipulates DNS in order to implement multi-path routing, modifying DNS in transit to fill in the best reachable IP address for a given device?
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@adam.ierymenko said:
So let me check my understanding: Pertino hijacks and manipulates DNS in order to implement multi-path routing, modifying DNS in transit to fill in the best reachable IP address for a given device?
That can't be all it's doing, otherwise clients on the LAN that don't have Pertino installed would still possibly wind up with issues if the DNS server provides the Pertino IP to a LAN client.
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@adam.ierymenko said:
So let me check my understanding: Pertino hijacks and manipulates DNS in order to implement multi-path routing, modifying DNS in transit to fill in the best reachable IP address for a given device?
Yes.
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Right... but most LAN clients won't have Pertino installed, will they?
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@Dashrender said:
@adam.ierymenko said:
So let me check my understanding: Pertino hijacks and manipulates DNS in order to implement multi-path routing, modifying DNS in transit to fill in the best reachable IP address for a given device?
That can't be all it's doing, otherwise clients on the LAN that don't have Pertino installed would still possibly wind up with issues if the DNS server provides the Pertino IP to a LAN client.
If you don't have Pertino on a client, it isn't on the network at all and is useless. EVERY device on the network without Pertino would be "off the LAN."
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@dafyre said:
Right... but most LAN clients won't have Pertino installed, will they?
Pertino is all or nothing. It's 100% deployment. You can't have a non-Pertino device or that device is not on your network.
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@adam.ierymenko said:
@Dashrender Right now ZeroTier does nothing for DNS. It virtualizes at L2 and that's it. It does handle IP address management if you enable that feature, but otherwise it just moves packets around.
I don't understand what you mean by IP address management?
I just installed it on three PCs - those three PCs where all able to ping each other, no other configuration was done. and I could ping by NetBIOS name (not sure if it DNS was involved or not). My NetBIOS names are the same as my DNS names, just missing the domain portion.
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@Dashrender It's probably doing it outbound as well as inbound, and you probably have to run something on your AD server(s).
@scottalanmiller Understood. That would indeed work -- basically it's an intra-LAN version of what Amazon Route 53 and other cloud DNS providers can do on the global Internet -- but I can think of more elegant solutions 1-2 layers down. Might explore in the near-mid term, but right now we're focused on more devops and IoT use cases.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
Right... but most LAN clients won't have Pertino installed, will they?
Pertino is all or nothing. It's 100% deployment. You can't have a non-Pertino device or that device is not on your network.
Sure you can.. it's just not part of the Pertino network.. but it can be part of the local to the server LAN network.
that's what I'm talking about. -
If Pertino were all or nothing it wouldn't need the DNS rewriting. You can use ZeroTier like that too, as some distributed workforce clients do -- use it as the primary company network and use the physical network(s) for transport only. In that case you put your AD servers on ZT only and they only advertise ZT IPs via intranet DNS.
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Take a typical SMB.
5 servers (2 AD boxes, 3 whatever)
50 desktops (non mobile)
50 laptops (work in and out of the local network)The desire is to give access to the 50 laptops. So you install ZT or Pertino. In this situation, you'll have 55 devices with the vpn client on them. and 50 without.
In this setup, does Pertino put the 55 IP's for Pertino's network into AD's DNS system? You said yes before, but I want to ask again to be sure.
So, assuming Pertino does, how do you prevent DNS from giving AD1's Pertino address to one of your desktops who only know about the local LAN network?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
Right... but most LAN clients won't have Pertino installed, will they?
Pertino is all or nothing. It's 100% deployment. You can't have a non-Pertino device or that device is not on your network.
Sure you can.. it's just not part of the Pertino network.. but it can be part of the local to the server LAN network.
that's what I'm talking about.The Pertino network IS your LAN. If you have another LAN elsewhere... that's just another LAN somewhere else. Remember Pertino is SDN, if you are doing what you describe you've completely missed the point of it.
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@adam.ierymenko said:
If Pertino were all or nothing it wouldn't need the DNS rewriting. You can use ZeroTier like that too, as some distributed workforce clients do -- use it as the primary company network and use the physical network(s) for transport only. In that case you put your AD servers on ZT only and they only advertise ZT IPs via intranet DNS.
It is, the REASON it needs it is BECAUSE it is all or nothing. It's what keeps the traffic from heading to the cloud when services are physically local.
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In that case then yes, you can do precisely the same with ZeroTier. Install it on everything and use it as the primary network. But as @Dashrender says not everyone wants to do that for multiple reasons.
BTW, does Pertino support Ethernet bridging? ZT can do that but I have yet to check others to see.
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@Dashrender said:
Take a typical SMB.
5 servers (2 AD boxes, 3 whatever)
50 desktops (non mobile)
50 laptops (work in and out of the local network)The desire is to give access to the 50 laptops. So you install ZT or Pertino. In this situation, you'll have 55 devices with the vpn client on them. and 50 without.
Right, so you'd have TWO LANs. Two completely separate LANs with some dual homed servers.
