@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
There is an interesting adage about Americans. I was told this by a European friend. It goes something like this:
In America if you offered a man a choice
A)You would give him $50,000 with the stipulation that all of his neighbors also got $50,000
or
B)You would give him $30,000 and his neighbors got nothing
He would most likely pick the because he earned it and he doesn't want to help any freeloaders.
Not sure if it is true or not but it seems to be a running joke in Europe
This definitely seems to be a theme in this thread this morning.
Not sure why anyone else would care what their neighbor has as long as it's not directly affecting them.
I've seen similar polls before, one was:
A) You make $60,000 a year, but so does everyone else
B) You make $50,000 a year, but everyone else makes $40,000
Most people pick B, even though it's a bad choice. I think it has to do with a lot of Americans believing that not everyone can do a little better, only a few can do a lot better. Of course even in capitalism that's not true, as the standards of living rise even on the lowest levels steadily. It's related to the F you I got mine thing above I talked about.
Sadly I agree with that last bit - choosing B is a power play over the others, can't have everyone else being the same as me. Until this thread though - I've never been asked a question like this before.
How is it a power play except in your own mind? If believing you were better than others made people more successful, America would have more wealthy people.
Who said it was any thing other than in their own mind - You're absolutely right that's the only place it really is.
Like I said above about people believing if they work hard they'll be rich one day, delusions don't help anyone. Typically though, I don't think most people believe it, Americans are not stupid, but they sure repeat it.
But your own example stated that people felt they could have worked harder - and they probably could have.... again - they could have worked in a hotel at night, learning a skill that would allow them to earn more money eventually moving to a day position, they could learn how to weld and work in construction making several times what the burger flipper makes. They didn't have to stay a burger flipper for their whole life.
Of course all that said - Are there enough high paying jobs for everyone? I honestly don't know.
But no matter what, until our technology moves us to the point of Scott's proposed 90% don't even bother working and are paid a stipend to do their own thing while the other 10% actually make the world go round - we still need ditch diggers, and those jobs just don't pay that well.
I'm not talking about becoming middle class, I'm talking about becoming wealthy, those are two different things. Most people could obviously directly benefit from better education, night school, etc. I never argued against that.
That's not what is said though, it's "be rich" nobody says "If I work hard enough, and get an education, I'll be able to do alright and maybe retire on time," much less tells everyone else that's how to do it or what the fruits of working hard are.
You can do this while making 45-50k a year (depending on the cost of living in your area). We need people educating themselves on the stock market, mutual funds, Roth IRA's, Index funds, etc. If you take $50 out of your bi-weekly paycheck and put it into an account that's $1200 a year. You can put that into a Roth IRA and buy into a Vanguard Starfund with that--which is totally respectable. Being in a Roth IRA container (which can only be wages) is post tax money. That means any gains or dividends you get are untaxed. It has a complete snowball effect if you keep reinvesting everything. Anyone can and should do this.
You don't have to be a genius to get ahead.
It pays to be a nice person sometimes.
