@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.

Please explain on paper how it's good?

On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.

how does this ensure everyone gets a fair shot? If you're forced to hire % of specific minorities, etc, that's anything but fair.

It doesn't. It just feeds the "everything is a metric" mentality, and I hate that.

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.

I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...

In the best scenario where you both respect each others thought process but arrive at different conclusions it's very easy to have mutual respect. It's when you consider your thought process to be accurate and concise while theirs is mixed up and inaccurate that the theory is really tested.

If a good person can do wrong and a bad person can do right then we are only ever judging the actions not the person.

I disagree with the whole "judge the actions, not the person" because I was fed that growing up, and it's bullshit. A person is defined by their actions. I know what they're trying to say is that good people can do bad things, and vice versa. But while the idea is novel, one bad action by a good person doesn't make them a bad person, as a rule. It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.

The basic premise behind this is "I don't think anyone has the right to judge anyone". We've all done right and wrong in our lives. If you trust the person to learn from their mistakes then keep them in your life. If you don't trust them to learn from their mistakes then don't keep them in your life. I think the majority of the judgments we make are horribly inaccurate to begin with considering we lack perspective as we are not the people we are judging.

A man stole something from someone. Stealing is bad. That man is bad. It's easy to arrive at this conclusion. The important part of it is why the man stole. Can any of us honestly say that if we were starving to death we wouldn't steal? I would. I would feel terrible about it, but I'd do it. Now we have a man who did something bad but is not himself a bad person. Judge the action not the person.

But in that case is the action wrong? If someone had to steal to eat to survive, what about soup kitchens/food banks? What about friends/family? There are circumstances behind it all, and this is also why I don't judge actions, I judge motives. To be honest, if I knew someone had killed someone for some reason, and the motive was to protect someone they cared about, the action might be "wrong" but the motive wasn't. That's why I say you can't judge the action and not the person. It's also about not taking things at face value.

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@thanksajdotcom said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@thanksajdotcom said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Dashrender said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Minion-Queen said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

I know something that I see as rampant for both internal IT and MSP's both is a VERY mismatched understanding of what the business wants. And what the business owners want isn't necessarily anything to do with IT either. IT is a necessary evil for most SMB's they want whatever makes it easy for them to figure out what IT is doing.

A good MSP or internal person for that matter. Will take the time to actually figure it all out.

But that often requires allowing IT to be part of the business process - otherwise the management needs to do that. IT can't work/exist in a vacuum.

Yup, and as we see on SW, rarely does even internal IT get allowed to do that.

And the problem is management doesn't know what they need, and a lot of IT people often don't know what they need, which is where MSPs fill in the gaps. However VARs masquerading as MSPs also causes issues and confusion in the market, so I get some businesses trepidation about doing that, but, the real issue is that SMBs, especially, are cheap, and only look at how much they are spending on paper on equipment, licensing, etc, and don't consider that IT is, in a large way, about risk mitigation, and don't look at how much it will cost if equipment goes down, etc.

The desire to be cheap definitely drives an emotional reaction for a lot of companies to see "free" and lose all common sense.

It still hasn't sunk into the SMB mindset that IT is a critical business component, and if you want to do well, you need that to be setup correctly, and done well, and it's not always cheap, but it's not about the money spent, it's about the value added, and businesses don't seem to get that. They often get that in other fields, but IT still eludes them.

While it is sometimes true in other fields, in general I find companies struggling with this in IT struggling with it across the board. Making IT a special case itself is a core business failure, not an IT one.

Also fair, and accurate.

@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.

Please explain on paper how it's good?

On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.

On paper it's racist and sexist. On paper it might actually look more evil than in real life!

It's horrible, I agree. Again, I don't agree with it. I get what they were trying to do, but the disconnect between what is on paper, which isn't really good, and what's reality, which is worse, is bad.

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@thanksajdotcom said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Dashrender said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Minion-Queen said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

I know something that I see as rampant for both internal IT and MSP's both is a VERY mismatched understanding of what the business wants. And what the business owners want isn't necessarily anything to do with IT either. IT is a necessary evil for most SMB's they want whatever makes it easy for them to figure out what IT is doing.

A good MSP or internal person for that matter. Will take the time to actually figure it all out.

But that often requires allowing IT to be part of the business process - otherwise the management needs to do that. IT can't work/exist in a vacuum.

Yup, and as we see on SW, rarely does even internal IT get allowed to do that.

And the problem is management doesn't know what they need, and a lot of IT people often don't know what they need, which is where MSPs fill in the gaps. However VARs masquerading as MSPs also causes issues and confusion in the market, so I get some businesses trepidation about doing that, but, the real issue is that SMBs, especially, are cheap, and only look at how much they are spending on paper on equipment, licensing, etc, and don't consider that IT is, in a large way, about risk mitigation, and don't look at how much it will cost if equipment goes down, etc.

The desire to be cheap definitely drives an emotional reaction for a lot of companies to see "free" and lose all common sense.

It still hasn't sunk into the SMB mindset that IT is a critical business component, and if you want to do well, you need that to be setup correctly, and done well, and it's not always cheap, but it's not about the money spent, it's about the value added, and businesses don't seem to get that. They often get that in other fields, but IT still eludes them.

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Dashrender said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Minion-Queen said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

I know something that I see as rampant for both internal IT and MSP's both is a VERY mismatched understanding of what the business wants. And what the business owners want isn't necessarily anything to do with IT either. IT is a necessary evil for most SMB's they want whatever makes it easy for them to figure out what IT is doing.

A good MSP or internal person for that matter. Will take the time to actually figure it all out.

But that often requires allowing IT to be part of the business process - otherwise the management needs to do that. IT can't work/exist in a vacuum.

Yup, and as we see on SW, rarely does even internal IT get allowed to do that.

And the problem is management doesn't know what they need, and a lot of IT people often don't know what they need, which is where MSPs fill in the gaps. However VARs masquerading as MSPs also causes issues and confusion in the market, so I get some businesses trepidation about doing that, but, the real issue is that SMBs, especially, are cheap, and only look at how much they are spending on paper on equipment, licensing, etc, and don't consider that IT is, in a large way, about risk mitigation, and don't look at how much it will cost if equipment goes down, etc.

@Son-of-Jor-El said in Non-IT News Thread:

Really, REALLY bad news!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-russia-diplomacy-idUSKBN1481RE

Has the same kind of feel as Franz Ferdinand's assassination in 1914. 5 weeks later, WWI started. Let's hope history does NOT repeat itself.

I was thinking the same thing.

@dafyre said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.

So much this. That is one of the reasons I enjoy a lot of the non-IT banter on here because it lets us learn something about somebody else and not wind up hating each other at the end of the day.

I will debate any subject with anyone. You want to discuss religion? Politics? Sex? Let's go! I hate the "small talk" culture we've become where it's demonized to actually say what you think and how you feel and not just "fine, yourself?" I love deep conversations, but I demand that if we have a discussion, it doesn't devolve into name-calling and basically become kindergarten. You claim something? Back it up with evidence! If you get butthurt that I demand you legitimize your viewpoints, then the conversation has devolved. And most of the time when that's happened, people know, at some level, they are being biased/prejudiced, etc and they don't want to admit that so they say how, someone like myself, is ignorant, or blind, or brainwashed, etc. After that point, I stop respecting the ability to discourse with you and move on. You're not worth my time once that happens. Come back when you've grown up.

@Dashrender said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

and I'm personally against things like Affirmative Action, because I know what they were trying to do, but unfortunately it's one of those things that on paper is good but in actuality it's horrible. People are people, and it should be based on qualifications, not the race of the person or demographic metrics to meet.

Please explain on paper how it's good?

On paper it is supposed to help ensure that everyone gets a fair shot by rewarding companies for hiring minorities, and maintaining a certain percentage of minorities. So I see what they were trying to do. But it's horrible, and broken, and needs to go away.

@Minion-Queen said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@Minion-Queen said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.

Awww thank you.

oh and of course I am awesome!

Obvi

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@thanksajdotcom said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.

I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...

In the best scenario where you both respect each others thought process but arrive at different conclusions it's very easy to have mutual respect. It's when you consider your thought process to be accurate and concise while theirs is mixed up and inaccurate that the theory is really tested.

If a good person can do wrong and a bad person can do right then we are only ever judging the actions not the person.

I disagree with the whole "judge the actions, not the person" because I was fed that growing up, and it's bullshit. A person is defined by their actions. I know what they're trying to say is that good people can do bad things, and vice versa. But while the idea is novel, one bad action by a good person doesn't make them a bad person, as a rule. It's more about being able to have objective, civil debates, and if you still don't agree at the end, remaining polite, pleasant and respectful of each other.

@scottalanmiller said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

@Breffni-Potter said in The MSP Model fails more often than not.:

• When an external is brought in, Often it is a deliberate decision to save costs by removing the internal team afterwards. Regardless of competence, performance or anything else, the decision just boils down to money saved, not what delivers the best return on investment.

This may be true, but not something I see in the real world. I'm not sure I've actually ever seen this first hand as an MSP, but I've seen it from internal IT people that think it is happening. I'm not totally sure that I know any internal people that were replaced with an MSP, but I'm certain it happens. But commonly? I'm not sure about that. It's repeated as a fear a lot, but of the MSPs and internal people here (which is everyone), how many of you had an MSP brought in and then had them replace you OR were brought in as an MSP and you replaced the people that were already there?

As an MSP, we've done attrition fill ins often (replacing people who leave) but not replacing people who still work there. Sometimes it's to let someone working in IT to move into management or something else, but that's IT attrition even if not corporate attrition.

To be honest, I've more often seen MSPs replaced by in-house IT because, on paper, it costs less to just pay one guy to deal with everything and be forced into a jack-of-all-trades situation than to pay the MSP price for the added value.

Just as a random FYI, one of the reasons @Minion-Queen is so awesome is for the very reason I mentioned above. Her and I have actually lost some of our similarities on things as I've gotten older, in viewpoints on various political issues, etc. However, she falls into what is, sadly, an all-too-rare category, that she holds her beliefs, but respects other people's and doesn't chastise them for being "wrong". Then again, Danielle is just awesome in general.

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

I respect the fact that everyone thinks they are right the majority of the time. It's kind of part of human nature. The problem as I see it is too few people are open to hearing the opinions of a contradictory viewpoint. My brother-in-law is a very intelligent person, but his weakness is assuming that because he is intelligent his viewpoint must be correct. In ethics, there are always many strong principles and you can absolutely justify each of them strongly even though they are at odds with each other. I try to remember that in my day to day.

I always respect that others may have viewpoints different from me. However, if I ask someone to defend their opinion on something, and becomes a personal attack against me for disagreeing with them, then I will not tolerate that. I have friends on the whole range of political viewpoints, sexuality, etc. As long as we can have that mutual respect for each other, that even if we don't agree, we still show that, I'm fine. I also get really peeved by people who assume that because I'm younger, that I somehow "lack life experience" or "just don't get it". That and the skewed viewpoint that people of my generation are inherently lazy both grind my gears...

@RojoLoco said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.

I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.

Agreed.

I mean I'm nice in the sense that I'm friendly towards people and if given the choice to be positive or negative I try my absolute best to be a positive influence on other people. If we're talking about my child though, I have a duty to them to raise them in what I consider to be the 'right way'.

Unfortunately, you now find yourself in opposition to most of American society if you want to raise your kids the "right" way (as mentioned above, no participation trophies, learning to deal with both success and failure, etc). Now you get to be the "bad guy" for wanting to raise sensible, well adjusted kids who can deal with reality and haven't been coddled. Which is f@cked if you ask me.

I was raised in a way that if I failed, I was told to figure out why, and either try again or, move on if it was a one-time thing, and learn from the mistake. I was raised that if I wanted to get ahead in life, I needed to work hard, be smart, and not just be passively accepting of everything, but if I wanted something, push for it, drive for it, and make it happen, which I know I need to tone down on in some ways (brute force doesn't work in relationships sadly). But the drive is important, because people who are successful all share certain traits at a fundamental level, and one of the biggest ones is the drive to succeed.

@scottalanmiller said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

@wirestyle22 said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

As much as I am a nice person I don't agree with the 'every kid gets a trophy' mentality.

I don't think nice is a factor. No matter how nice you are doesn't mean that you want to reward failure. Rewarding failure is just another term for trivializing success.

I completely agree that participation trophies are bullshit. You need to know how to fail, and succeed, and should be pushed to succeed. We should not be programming kids that if they fail, everything will just still be alright. We're taking away competition and drive and spirit from the next generation, and I hate that. Glad that I avoided that mess.

@DustinB3403 said in Work horse - Monochrome dual tray maximum Printer - Network compatible:

Yeah the mindset is to keep a less varied supply of toner in stock. Which I understand, and at the same time we already have a very varied supply of toners...

So meh.....

And that's why it's a bogus argument. Unless you have truly standardized an entire company on one set of equipment, and by that it's what @wirestyle22 said with it being about the model, not the brand, then why does it matter? If it saves the company money, it's just as easy to submit a PO for toner B as toner A, etc.

@DustinB3403 said in Work horse - Monochrome dual tray maximum Printer - Network compatible:

@thanksajdotcom said in Work horse - Monochrome dual tray maximum Printer - Network compatible:

Did we reach a decision about this?

The boss wants to keep with the same family of printers that we have now, so it's an HP something or other that we'll end up with.

But nothing has been ordered yet.

I won't get into a rant about how why people think "sticking to all one brand" is somehow inherently better. If that's the case, if you have that kind of volume, I'd look at the LaserJet Enterprise series. I'll see if they've changed since I last looked at them and go from there. But the Enterprise series are fairly solid.

Did we reach a decision about this?

Ready to go home and crawl back in bed with my lovely lady