I can understand both sides of the situation. I would have to look at the depth of knowledge in each case.

I don't think it is possible for Melissa to have the same exposure to technologies as Larry unless he has been in a DEEEEEP hole. Then Larry would definitely be out.

Just because Mom has been driving for 23 years taking her children mostly around town and her daughter has been driving for three around the same town doesn't make her daughter the same quality driver. I think wisdom comes into play also.

Hmmm.. Interesting question and something to ponder....

@scottalanmiller said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@scottalanmiller said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@dbeato said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

Most of my clients have an on-site data server
All have an AD server
All have a webserver of some type.
A few have terminal services

The fact that
Most of my clients have an on-site data server
A few have terminal services

Terminal Server is also something really annoying and cumbersome to manage without AD.

Microsoft keeps intertwining RDS and AD. Trying to manage RDS without AD is as bad as Hyper-V without AD.

Yes, we keep deploying isolated AD just for RDS to make it act as local.

What do you mean by "isolated?" Little lost on the meaning here.

AD that touches literally nothing else besides Hyper-V for the purposes of managing Hyper-V.

Oh ok. Got it.

Yeah, so if we had RDS + Hyper-V, we'd use two different domains. Basically making AD into a local password system. It's both AD and local, in that case.

Of course, doing that for Hyper-V is pretty silly. Doing it for RDS has proven kind of practical.

So if a user had a reason to be in both domains, you would just make the domain trusts correct? (I don't exact term here)

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@scottalanmiller said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@dbeato said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

Most of my clients have an on-site data server
All have an AD server
All have a webserver of some type.
A few have terminal services

The fact that
Most of my clients have an on-site data server
A few have terminal services

Terminal Server is also something really annoying and cumbersome to manage without AD.

Microsoft keeps intertwining RDS and AD. Trying to manage RDS without AD is as bad as Hyper-V without AD.

Yes, we keep deploying isolated AD just for RDS to make it act as local.

What do you mean by "isolated?" Little lost on the meaning here.

AD that touches literally nothing else besides Hyper-V for the purposes of managing Hyper-V.

Oh ok. Got it.

@scottalanmiller said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@pmoncho said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@dbeato said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

Most of my clients have an on-site data server
All have an AD server
All have a webserver of some type.
A few have terminal services

The fact that
Most of my clients have an on-site data server
A few have terminal services

Terminal Server is also something really annoying and cumbersome to manage without AD.

Microsoft keeps intertwining RDS and AD. Trying to manage RDS without AD is as bad as Hyper-V without AD.

Yes, we keep deploying isolated AD just for RDS to make it act as local.

What do you mean by "isolated?" Little lost on the meaning here.

@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

Not true in even the slightest. It does allow you to upgrade. No mention in this thread (as far as I have seen, might have missed it) you understood that you would paying up at EOL without support contract.

What do you mean? Right now, no version of Hyper-V has ever not been free or is hinted to ever not be free. Could it stop being free? Sure, in theory. but a decade of Hyper-V and they've stuck to their "always free" plan.

At the time of the discussion (which is all worked out now), is that Hyper-V (pick a version) will run till EOL. My point, at the time, was that Hyper-V 2012R2 will NOT have security updates forever and will then need to be upgraded in order to have further security updates. If you want more security updates for 2012R2 after EOL, you can pay MS for that privilege.

That is all I was stating, nothing more.

@DustinB3403 said in Hyper-V 2019 Installation guidance:

@dafyre I can't say why that isn't being done as I honestly have no clue.

I don't know if this is a lab or not, but what if you created a RAID1 and a RAID 10 and install Windows 2019 on the RAID1 (for testing purposes) It may be a quick way to point you in a different direction with regards to the OBR10.

I am out of my league in this area (I use 2TB or less) but am paying attention as I will be in this situation in a few months for my R520.

@DustinB3403

Works for me!! LOL.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho free forever for the life of the product should always be assumed when having a conversation on a technical forum. Never would I, nor anyone else reasonable assume that any hardware or software product will last "forever" past the death of the sun and beyond.

Let's get real here, you were playing semantics to upset the conversation or honestly believe that these products will and do last "forever".

No. I just made a statement and nothing more. You blew it the heck out of proportion because you thought I was being a jerk (which was not my intention). If it was out of bounds by your estimate. Fine. That's ok and I will retract it. Don't get all upset about it like I was intentionally trying to piss you off.

If there is one thing I have learned, in this thread and every other thread on this board, ASSUME NOTHING! Look at the pissyness it created. All for naught.

Now, just smile, realize that no matter what, if we both want VMWare we have to pay. I agree with you 10000% that it SUCKS. Were on the same side here.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.

Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.

True dat! But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.

Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.

Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.

It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.

. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.

ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.

Don't get upset with me for VMware's Terms of Service. I didn't create them.

Everything goes EoL at some point, so there is no logical reason to think that anyone or any platform would provide security and bug fixes forever. It's why new releases are made "regularly".

Bringing up that "each version of Hyper-V will go EoL" is like bringing up that "everyone on the planet will die eventually" It's a known truth that, while obvious serves no purpose to the conversation.

Bringing it into the conversation does nothing but irritate the people having the conversation because there is no rational to bringing it up in the first place.

Ok, I wasn't gonna point this out as I never try to intentionally upset anyone, but now I am gonna be a jerk. You want F'ing semantics,

You said the following:

Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever.

Not true in even the slightest. It does allow you to upgrade. No mention in this thread (as far as I have seen, might have missed it) you understood that you would paying up at EOL without support contract.

Take whatever statement, however you want. I had no intention of upsetting you or anyone else.

At the end of the day, VMware and many other companies do not continue software/security updates after support expiration. RTF EULA and you will have no issue or reason to be upset.

Hopefully the coffee helped and maybe this will too. "If you are distressed by anything external,the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at anytime." --Marcus Aurelius

@dbeato said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

@DustinB3403 said in What would your recommendation be for a Type 1 Hypervisor - including backup and restoration options:

Most of my clients have an on-site data server
All have an AD server
All have a webserver of some type.
A few have terminal services

The fact that
Most of my clients have an on-site data server
A few have terminal services

Terminal Server is also something really annoying and cumbersome to manage without AD.

Microsoft keeps intertwining RDS and AD. Trying to manage RDS without AD is as bad as Hyper-V without AD.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.

Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.

True dat! But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.

Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.

Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.

It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.

. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.

ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.

Don't get upset with me for VMware's Terms of Service. I didn't create them.

BTW, Jared is in a league of his own.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.

Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.

True dat! But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.

Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.

Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.

It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.

Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.

True dat! But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho removing features may not be an option that can be considered depending on how ESXi is used. So there really is no good answer here. You're forced to pay continuously.

Essentially extorted to pay for functionality and security.

Actually, extorted to pay for security as the functions stick with the expired license. Mind you, I have only run into this situation once about 4 years ago. It may have changed since then.

I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.

Although, as we see many from many other software companies, VMware is not alone in this type of licensing.

@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:

@DustinB3403

Based on my past findings, if you purchased an Essentials license (this is all I have ever purchased) you do not lose any functions after support expiration. vCenter even keeps working to my knowledge. You no long have software updates and if you want to re-up they will charge a re-up fee along with support fee.

So this part here seems insane, meaning I can't fix security vulnerabilities or bugs ever.

AFAIK, correct. That is how they get you to keep support. I believe you can go down to the free version and then lose the backup API's and vCenter.

Which, failing to remain supported, creates some major security concerns.
That it does, unless you go down to limited features and no backup api's.

@DustinB3403

Based on my past findings, if you purchased an Essentials license (this is all I have ever purchased) you do not lose any functions after support expiration. vCenter even keeps working to my knowledge. You no long have software updates and if you want to re-up they will charge a re-up fee along with support fee.

As for retail pricing, Essentials is $666 for first three years of software upgrades and $180 for three year software upgrades. A licensee can pay per hour for support if needed.

To me, being in SMB, $850 for 6 years is reasonable. Many of these same clients have no issue paying for Sonicwalls, Fortinet and Watchguard UTM's either and we have had many discussions on the cost of those.

@scottalanmiller said in Untangle Site to Site VPN Not Connecting:

OpenVPN app

Going out on a whim. If they purchased business licenses, did they expire?

Had this happen to me last month with client (they used another tech company).

@wrx7m said in VMWare Shutdown:

vSphere Mobile Watchlist

I didn't use it but it looks like it has not been on their since mid-October. That is what I found on their community boards.

@maximus said in VMWare Shutdown:

Hi,

What is the proper shutdown of VMWare host to prevent damage on the running guest servers? how long does it take to completely shutdown everything?

i have 2 VM host with around 12 guest running on each host.

Like others have said, it depends on what type of servers you are running.

My environment consists of -

Three ESXi hosts with vCenter 6.5 U2 with 35 VM's, mix of Linux and Windows and Two APC UPS (Hosts have dual power supplies with one cord to each UPS) and running an APC VM with powershute software. We do not have a generator but the UPS will run for 35 minutes on battery.

If my users (many remote users) get out in decent time, this process takes about 8-14 minutes and everything is powered down safely. I shutdown small lightly used servers first while waiting on users. Also I use the Shutdown Guest inside vCenter so I don't have to spend time logging into each host and running a shutdown command (I will if I have time).

Powering on is a different beast. Do not let all VM's come up at the same time or your will have a boot storm.

@Joel said in HyperV Server - Raid Best Practices:

This got a little heated :face_screaming_in_fear:
-So can we clarify, back to the OP - Consensus out of the options I have, Option 2 is the best way to go?

6x 2TB 12GB/s Drives in OBR10 for everything and then creating two partitions (1 for the HyperVisor OS) and then (1 for data - to store all my Virtual Machines and Data).

My VMs would be in D:\Hyper-V\VM's
My Virtual Hard Disks (daily data) would be in D:\Hyper-V\Data

Don't forget to do the cost comparisons of SAS in OBR10 vs SSD in RAID5. You may be surprised to find out that SSD in RAID 5 is cheaper (Stick with SSD 6Gb/s vs 12Gb/s) depending upon your server manufacturer.