@scottalanmiller said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread.

It was? That was just one random comment by Dustin who didn't know what vMotion even was nor that it was a commodity feature, like HA, on every platform.

vMotion does require a three node purchase, but it also requires at least two nodes just to exist theoretically. And yes, Essentials Plus is the first with any significant functionality (and support.) It is the cheaper level you would ever realistically consider.

here is a good guide...

https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/VMware_vSphere_6_Editions_Overview

Thanks @scottalanmiller I will take a read of that. Yes, that was how it started. The op said tell me why VMWare etc... and one of the first comments was vMotion. Which means you need that license etc and back where we were at the start of the day lol

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Are you happy know? @scottalanmiller answered for me.

1. That is the cost for 3 hosts not 1.
2. You don't do HA at the platform and at the Application without some really damned good reasons.
   • And IMO, you have not even given a valid reason for any type of HA.

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread. Only that stage an up, when checking out to buy, says it comes with vMotion. Even if I need 2 hosts, with VMWare I must get that product at that price.

With Hyper-V, you can move a VM live between nodes... for free.

Why on earth would I buy VMWare, at that price, for that feature, the only feature suggested at the time... when I can get it for free!

I believe @scottalanmiller has already corrected your misunderstandings from @DustinB3403 going south.

So you are correct. You do not need VMWare for that functionality, use Hyper-V.

But none of that answers the more appropriate question. Do you need HA? If so, at what layer?

Both. I already said why.

Mr CEO, I want to double our licensing costs and double our hardware costs so I don't have to schedule maintenance windows.

No. Two nodes for hyperv. Or two nodes for VMWare... its still two nodes. Same cost.
Linux for HAProxys, free. Linux for webservers, free. MySQL cluster... also free (I think)...
ALL ENTIRELY FREE.

And now, without spending the money for VMWare you can do what you need when you need as long as you don't prat around and turn both MySQL cluster VMs off. Or both webservers etc.

So you are smart and handled the application level with zero cost. your earlier examples were always IIS and MS SQL.

But you do not get HA from two servers like this. You ARE talking about simple VM migration while running. That is not and has never been HA.

Yes they did mention IIS and SQL Svr.

If I buy windows server standard, I can run 2 x VMs on a hyper V host. One = IIS. The other, windows server with then SQL Svr. HAProxy on CentOS would be free.

Then buy the second hosts, again license for Windows server standard.

The only expensive part here is the SQL Svr licenses. BUT... with standard I'm allowed a second install to make use of always on availability groups for high availability. So even then, this is only:

2 x Windows Server Standard with SA.
1 x SQL Svr, 4 core.
Done....

WOW... so expensive!

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Are you happy know? @scottalanmiller answered for me.

1. That is the cost for 3 hosts not 1.
2. You don't do HA at the platform and at the Application without some really damned good reasons.
   • And IMO, you have not even given a valid reason for any type of HA.

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread. Only that stage an up, when checking out to buy, says it comes with vMotion. Even if I need 2 hosts, with VMWare I must get that product at that price.

With Hyper-V, you can move a VM live between nodes... for free.

Why on earth would I buy VMWare, at that price, for that feature, the only feature suggested at the time... when I can get it for free!

I believe @scottalanmiller has already corrected your misunderstandings from @DustinB3403 going south.

So you are correct. You do not need VMWare for that functionality, use Hyper-V.

But none of that answers the more appropriate question. Do you need HA? If so, at what layer?

Actually, please read again. You will see I was infact saying HyperV does this. Not being corrected by anybody in that respect.

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Are you happy know? @scottalanmiller answered for me.

1. That is the cost for 3 hosts not 1.
2. You don't do HA at the platform and at the Application without some really damned good reasons.
   • And IMO, you have not even given a valid reason for any type of HA.

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread. Only that stage an up, when checking out to buy, says it comes with vMotion. Even if I need 2 hosts, with VMWare I must get that product at that price.

With Hyper-V, you can move a VM live between nodes... for free.

Why on earth would I buy VMWare, at that price, for that feature, the only feature suggested at the time... when I can get it for free!

I believe @scottalanmiller has already corrected your misunderstandings from @DustinB3403 going south.

So you are correct. You do not need VMWare for that functionality, use Hyper-V.

But none of that answers the more appropriate question. Do you need HA? If so, at what layer?

Both. I already said why.

Mr CEO, I want to double our licensing costs and double our hardware costs so I don't have to schedule maintenance windows.

No. Two nodes for hyperv. Or two nodes for VMWare... its still two nodes. Same cost.
Linux for HAProxys, free. Linux for webservers, free. MySQL cluster... also free (I think)...
ALL ENTIRELY FREE.

And now, without spending the money for VMWare you can do what you need when you need as long as you don't prat around and turn both MySQL cluster VMs off. Or both webservers etc.

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

Being able to do maintenance business as usual, during the day, on VMs and on hosts, is a valid reason. Entirely valid. Especially as it can be done as and when needed, with no affect on customers at all.

That reason has a cost associated to it. That cost is very, very, often not justified by when real numbers are crunched.

I guess we are going to have to disagree on this. The flexibility being able to do maintenance as and when, during the day, on both VMs (as we have application level HA), and hardware (as we have hardware level HA) is very important. We are able to do what we need when we need, without having to plan downtime or hold off on changes to fit in to a schedule. Having expensive admins stay late to do work adds up, when if its BAU during the day as its all HA, for very little extra work, you make savings and can be more agile.

Look, lets just disagree on this. We each have our way of doing things.

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Are you happy know? @scottalanmiller answered for me.

1. That is the cost for 3 hosts not 1.
2. You don't do HA at the platform and at the Application without some really damned good reasons.
   • And IMO, you have not even given a valid reason for any type of HA.

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread. Only that stage an up, when checking out to buy, says it comes with vMotion. Even if I need 2 hosts, with VMWare I must get that product at that price.

With Hyper-V, you can move a VM live between nodes... for free.

Why on earth would I buy VMWare, at that price, for that feature, the only feature suggested at the time... when I can get it for free!

I believe @scottalanmiller has already corrected your misunderstandings from @DustinB3403 going south.

So you are correct. You do not need VMWare for that functionality, use Hyper-V.

But none of that answers the more appropriate question. Do you need HA? If so, at what layer?

Both. I already said why.

Being able to do maintenance business as usual, during the day, on VMs and on hosts, is a valid reason. Entirely valid. Especially as it can be done as and when needed, with no affect on customers at all.

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Are you happy know? @scottalanmiller answered for me.

1. That is the cost for 3 hosts not 1.
2. You don't do HA at the platform and at the Application without some really damned good reasons.
   • And IMO, you have not even given a valid reason for any type of HA.

I cannot see any way on their site to purchase any less than this, and get vMotion, which was the initial start of the whole darn thread. Only that stage an up, when checking out to buy, says it comes with vMotion. Even if I need 2 hosts, with VMWare I must get that product at that price.

With Hyper-V, you can move a VM live between nodes... for free.

Why on earth would I buy VMWare, at that price, for that feature, the only feature suggested at the time... when I can get it for free!

@scottalanmiller - thanks for showing i'm not a total idiot.

Glad to see somebody else doesn't see what I was saying as crazy or 'wrong'. Found it very frustrating to be told 'hire me as a consultant to show you why you are wrong' and... 'go learn how to do it properly' etc.

2 x HA Proxy (free), sitting in front of two webservers (can be free), sitting in front of a clustered database (can be free), sitting with 50% on one node, local storage, and 50% on another node, local storage... can be entirely absolutely free using Hyper-V and NO NEED FOR VMWARE at all. That is also entirely Highly Available, for free. Don't know why I was insulted for saying so, when vMotion, the only aspect mentioned adds nothing at all to the capability of the FREE application level HA I said... To be told to 'go learn' very unprofessional.

As far as I understand, using VMWare provides only hardware level HA. Could be wrong, if so, yeah - point me out on that. As far as I see, if I have a VM on VMWare for webserver (which i'd only have one of as most so far have said two webservers is wrong), when the node crashes the other VMWare nodes would bring the VM back online from the cluster/shared storage... that isn't instant. With windows failover cluster (At least in 2008 r2, not sure since), the VM has to boot fresh on the second node... its not instant in memory failover. Why bother paying for VMWare to get that if you don't go the extra step and just build app level HA in too... clearly you do not need HA).
[Perhaps VM does instantly bring the VM up after a host has failed on another node from the shared storage with everything in memory and no need to boot]? - In which case, please tell me. But I know it didn't with a windows failover cluster.

The reason why I use hardware HA and application HA is so that I can get away with doing maintenance on the hosts, and on the VMs, whenever I want - within reason. If I want to maintenance on webserver 1, switch HA proxy to webserver 2... no need for out of hours. Can just BAU get on with it.

If I need to do maintenance on node1, simple, move webserver 1 live to node2 etc and then also do the maintenance BAU... easy.

@John-Nicholson said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 Application clusters require exponential more complexity in support, monitoring, and operations (patching, troubleshooting). I've seen SQL clusters cause more outages than they solved in many cases. Hypervisor HA is VERY simple in comparison. App HA in some cases (AAG, Oracle RAC) has a VERY steep entry price (quickly gets over 100K). If my operations teams are not trained/certified/skilled on these solutions I could be extending outages, or extending costs for basic tasks.

An aircraft carrier is a superior solution to a Catamaran except when you only have a 4 man crew who never were in the Navy...

While I love App HA, and many people need it. For some Hypervisor HA is a good middle ground.

I somewhat agree. It depends, as always. The example I was giving is not complex and should be a starting point if you are thinking of HA for IIS and SQL Server. Just jumping to hardware level HA using nodes with VMWare or nodes with HyperV or whatever is just lazy. Think about application level HA too as a start point.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 So again, you're taking the 1 feature I listed randomly and harping on it.

I see it looks like that lol - in all honesty I didn't realise this would go on so long... to me, that feature doesn't mean pay. Other probably do. And since this post is asking when to use VMWare over free - I thought it was sensible to put my view that the one feature imo doesn't = pay.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 Why does VMware effect what application you are hosting?

You're mixing things up.

I'm trying to say that the HA you get from VMWare (when we were talking about vMotion), compared to what you can do with free hyper-v, if the application is built correctly at application HA level, makes VMWare pointless.

If I can survive multiple host failures as I have application level high availability, the hypervisor that sits on doesn't matter. The free one does the same as the HA is app level.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.

He's definitely rude (and he knows it) but he's also correct 99% of the time

Yeah, probably. But i'm just curious as to why i'm wrong here. Not being rude about it from my side at all. It does look to be 5k. And i'd still need the same multiple IIS servers, and SQL servers... and yes, i'd want them sitting behing something like HA proxy. At that point I have application level high availability, so even less need for vMotion.

But at that point you'd have at least 12 individual system before you're even managing the Hypervisor its self.

That's a stupidly long dependency chain with a lot of things that can go wrong. Not even mentioning the time to setup and test the system. And then to find someone who would want to support it from the Bus effect.

Yeah, agree i'd have 12 systems. Of course I have 12. Why on earth wouldn't I. If I had only 1 x SQL Server, or 1 x IIS, whenever I do updates... that's the app down. Surely I'm not the only person to see that? I need application HA in addition to the hardware level... and in this case, once I have that... vMotion does nothing for me.

Every system has down time, even wall street. There is no such thing as 100% up time. You're in a dream world if you think this is a viable, cost effective solution.

And unless you are Wall Street, the entire setup here would only make sense for the 1% of the top 1% of organizations.

Where did I say 100% uptime? I didn't. 12 VMs is small. Everywhere has downtime, yes, but this isn't complex and for IIS and SQL Server etc... this is not an unreasonable setup. Not hard to manage or design either. I'm shocked y'all think its suck a crazy setup.

You're purposefully attempting to say ESXi sucks because you can do something else with Hyper-V.

I'm sure VMWare has its awesome points. I was just saying that vMotion, if the system is built in the right way, makes that pointless. Especially as Hyper-V does it anyway. This is a question of when to use VMWare over free hypervisiors - vMotion IMO is not one of them.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

whenever I do updates... that's the app down

You said the above which leads us to believe that you thought there would be 100% uptime. That's why we said that it doesn't really exist (outside of possibly really huge enterprise systems that I have never seen)

Very few people have seen systems like this. The top 1% of IT engineers in the world are the only people to see systems like this.

Ok, so... vMotion allows you to plan a move of a VM from node1 to node2. Then you can perform downtime to node1. That's hardware HA. HypreV allows you to do that... benefit of buying the VMWare for this = 0. In that case, the 1x VM its self goes down, then that's downtime to the service as its not application level HA... if that's ok by you then fine, even more reason not to get VMWare. If you need the app to be able to stay up if the VM is restarted, you need application level HA with SQL server and IIS etc.. in which case, doesn't matter again if you have VMWare.

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

whenever I do updates... that's the app down

You said the above which leads us to believe that you thought there would be 100% uptime. That's why we said that it doesn't really exist
If I have 1 x IIS server VM, using 1 x SQL Server VM (2 VMs), when I update either one, my app is down.

Having 2 x SQL for SQL cluster, and 2 x IIS behind a haproxy is not weird... and means updates do not cause downtime.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.

He's definitely rude (and he knows it) but he's also correct 99% of the time

Yeah, probably. But i'm just curious as to why i'm wrong here. Not being rude about it from my side at all. It does look to be 5k. And i'd still need the same multiple IIS servers, and SQL servers... and yes, i'd want them sitting behing something like HA proxy. At that point I have application level high availability, so even less need for vMotion.

But at that point you'd have at least 12 individual system before you're even managing the Hypervisor its self.

That's a stupidly long dependency chain with a lot of things that can go wrong. Not even mentioning the time to setup and test the system. And then to find someone who would want to support it from the Bus effect.

Yeah, agree i'd have 12 systems. Of course I have 12. Why on earth wouldn't I. If I had only 1 x SQL Server, or 1 x IIS, whenever I do updates... that's the app down. Surely I'm not the only person to see that? I need application HA in addition to the hardware level... and in this case, once I have that... vMotion does nothing for me.

Every system has down time, even wall street. There is no such thing as 100% up time. You're in a dream world if you think this is a viable, cost effective solution.

And unless you are Wall Street, the entire setup here would only make sense for the 1% of the top 1% of organizations.

Where did I say 100% uptime? I didn't. 12 VMs is small. Everywhere has downtime, yes, but this isn't complex and for IIS and SQL Server etc... this is not an unreasonable setup. Not hard to manage or design either. I'm shocked y'all think its suck a crazy setup.

@DustinB3403 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.

He's definitely rude (and he knows it) but he's also correct 99% of the time

Yeah, probably. But i'm just curious as to why i'm wrong here. Not being rude about it from my side at all. It does look to be 5k. And i'd still need the same multiple IIS servers, and SQL servers... and yes, i'd want them sitting behing something like HA proxy. At that point I have application level high availability, so even less need for vMotion.

But at that point you'd have at least 12 individual system before you're even managing the Hypervisor its self.

That's a stupidly long dependency chain with a lot of things that can go wrong. Not even mentioning the time to setup and test the system. And then to find someone who would want to support it from the Bus effect.

Yeah, agree i'd have 12 systems. Of course I have 12. Why on earth wouldn't I. If I had only 1 x SQL Server, or 1 x IIS, whenever I do updates... that's the app down. Surely I'm not the only person to see that? I need application HA in addition to the hardware level... and in this case, once I have that... vMotion does nothing for me.

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.

He's definitely rude (and he knows it) but he's also correct 99% of the time

Yeah, probably. But i'm just curious as to why i'm wrong here. Not being rude about it from my side at all. It does look to be 5k. And i'd still need the same multiple IIS servers, and SQL servers... and yes, i'd want them sitting behing something like HA proxy. At that point I have application level high availability, so even less need for vMotion.

In a very general way, complexity = bad unless you have no other option. In this situation you would have other options. I had no idea VMware was a good as it is, but I'm also in the SMB space.

Agree 100%. But what I described is not complex. If VMWare is needed for high availability, that means to me things need to stay up. So at a minimum, you would need two VMs for IIS, you would need the SQL cluster etc... If I want to run windows updates on IIS box and I have 1 or them only... downtime. So I need two. If I have two, I can put them behind haproxy, so when I switch one off for updates, the other will take the load... application level HA without VMWare and the price tag.

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.

He's definitely rude (and he knows it) but he's also correct 99% of the time

Yeah, probably. But i'm just curious as to why i'm wrong here. Not being rude about it from my side at all. It does look to be 5k. And i'd still need the same multiple IIS servers, and SQL servers... and yes, i'd want them sitting behing something like HA proxy. At that point I have application level high availability, so even less need for vMotion.

@wirestyle22 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@JaredBusch said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

@Jimmy9008 said in When to use VMWare over free hypervisors?:

with VMWare at 5k a pop

FFS, you have no idea WTF you are talking about. Stop arguing and go learn. Then you can discuss instead of argue.

This is the product right?

£4712 with VAT... not far out of the 5k I said no?

So where are you saying I'm wrong here?

Would like like me to send you a quote for an hour of consulting time to help you understand?

How much is an hour of consulting time? I fI can afford it I'd probably hire you to teach me. I'm very serious

Hahah lol

No, i'd like you to not be rude actually. From the page I am looking at, that product is the minimum you need for vMotion - which is what we were just talking about where I referred to the price... so... yeah...

I'm not the one being rude here.