@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

You proved my point with this thread. Imagine if you just ponied up the money for Office 365 and didnt have to spend time doing all this dumb bullshit making it harder for users to collaborate.

It's funny how you call "more efficient with no problems at all", "all this dumb shit." We've had zero issues so far with users who have moved over. Zero. You act like you are confident it's crippling our businesses. Do you know the last time that we received a collaboration document in an MS Office format? Like... I can't even remember. Yes, once in a while we get CVs in that format. But you seem to think that LibreOffice doesn't work with those file formats. But it does, just fine.

You are basing your arguments on the theory that we are running into problems with LibreOffice and not with MS Office. But my point was, that that's the opposite of what's happening. Nearly every customer with MS Office is having it break on them and can't collaborate. None of the ones with LibreOffice are having that.

So this whole line of thinking makes no sense.

Are you Pete S. ? I assumed you were and you answered me like you were him

You said "Scott, "

Yes but you are Pete S. , right?

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

You proved my point with this thread. Imagine if you just ponied up the money for Office 365 and didnt have to spend time doing all this dumb bullshit making it harder for users to collaborate.

It's funny how you call "more efficient with no problems at all", "all this dumb shit." We've had zero issues so far with users who have moved over. Zero. You act like you are confident it's crippling our businesses. Do you know the last time that we received a collaboration document in an MS Office format? Like... I can't even remember. Yes, once in a while we get CVs in that format. But you seem to think that LibreOffice doesn't work with those file formats. But it does, just fine.

You are basing your arguments on the theory that we are running into problems with LibreOffice and not with MS Office. But my point was, that that's the opposite of what's happening. Nearly every customer with MS Office is having it break on them and can't collaborate. None of the ones with LibreOffice are having that.

So this whole line of thinking makes no sense.

Are you Pete S. ? I assumed you were and you answered me like you were him

@Pete-S said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

So you have to go to your NTG or whatever IT labor you use and open your pockets at $150-300 an hour when you have an issue.

The obvious examples would be things like Windows or MS Office vs. Ubuntu or LibreOffice.

I seriously have to question if people who like LibreOffice actually use it for business. It is terrible at so many things. This is coming from someone who has used an Ubuntu workstation with LibreOffice for the last 6 years while working for multiple companies. Microsoft Office is 1000x better, and makes collaboration much easier. I have spent so much time trying to get LibreOffice to work or read MS office documents (that everyone else uses), and there has been nothing but issues. Not to mention LibreOffice is slower than MS Office by a good margin. If you work with big documents, LibreOffice is a dog.

I disagree with this as well. I actually have more experience with OpenOffice (not Libre) but the problem is that Microsoft as usual does a lot of proprietary shit in their file formats. Can hardly blame someone else for that.

And I have large files (csv and similar) that can't be opened in Excel because they are too big. But they open just fine in other programs.

But the real problem as I see it is not which office suit you use, but rather that people use the wrong tool for the job. Like trying to use excel to fill out forms and stuffing it with lots of macros and other crap to make a half-assed attempt at something that is barely usable.

This stuff doesn't work with open/libre office but it doesn't even work the same in different office versions.

Scott,

You proved my point with this thread. Imagine if you just ponied up the money for Office 365 and didnt have to spend time doing all this dumb bullshit making it harder for users to collaborate. It isnt 2005 anymore. Standard file servers are a thing of the pass as they should be.

@Pete-S said in File permission and samba help needed:

I have a server running samba. It's messy with lots of files in it and people have been connecting to it using the same username/password.

I want to split this up so I created usernames and passwords for everyone, both in linux and samba.

What I think I want is one share but under that directories for different departments - like HR, finance etc. And the users should have different permissions so they can only see the directories they have permission for.

What is my next step? Should I create groups in linux for each department and then add users to that group? And then change the group owner on the departments directory and files below?

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

The problem is that you cannot force people outside your org to use LibreOffice, and even forcing people inside your org to use something far inferior is extremely difficult.

But the assumption is that people outside of your org can force you to use MS Office.

Yeah its true. It's part of doing business. Do you want to do common office tasks with ease, or do you want to try to fit a square peg into a round hole? Businesses are constantly forced to do things by their customers, this is no different.

@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

I honestly don't know how you can say that with a straight face. I love open source stuff and use it when I can, but there is no chance that the random office worker is going to have vastly less issues with Ubuntu and LibreOffice.

In the real world, working with small businesses, it's dramatic how many fewer issues we see. That's why flat rate support for Linux systems is lower, it takes so much less IT time to buy, license, install, and support. And I don't mean a "little" less, it's so much less.

Random office workers are a great example. They rarely do anything complicated and all they tend to need are their business LOB apps (they can't tell if they are on Windows or Ubuntu), web browser, and/or office tools. Often, people are switching on their own these days and don't even realize because they've already adapted to all web work. That's why we are finding Chromebooks in customer sites all the time, because they work and the customers don't even reach out to IT before deploying and people just adapt transparently.

Since end users don't interact with the OS in any meaningful way, most aren't completely clear that the OS has even changed. They use a start menu, desktop icons, or whatever to launch their apps and it's all transparent.

Linux is great, LibreOffice is garbage.

I've seen LibreOffice Calc handle huge spreadsheets (thousands of lines) fine, and then choke on smaller ones. I'm not sure what the defining factor is lol.

LibreOffice is :pile_of_poo:

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

I have spent so much time trying to get LibreOffice to work or read MS office documents (that everyone else uses), and there has been nothing but issues.

This is a huge part of why you see it as not working. You aren't trying to change your ecosystem, you are trying to use LibreOffice as MS Office, rather than using it apples to apples. Try using MS Office to read LibreOffice files, it's not good either.

Actually switch to LibreOffice, don't go halfway, and you'll be amazed at how totally great it is. As powerful? No, MS Office is the best when it comes to total features. But the average company has literally zero people who use those high end features, and those that do use them it's generally extremely isolated people within an org. No "normal" office worker can even start to touch the power features of either platform. For normal workers, meaning the 95%, not the 80%, both do anything that they need.

The problem is that you cannot force people outside your org to use LibreOffice, and even forcing people inside your org to use something far inferior is extremely difficult.

Another issue that you didnt mention with LibreOffice, is the lack of collaboration when working on shared documents. I can much easier collaborate and work simultaneously on MS document.

Can you save a few bucks a month per user using LibreOffice, sure? It will cost you more support hours and you will get less productivity. So you will lose money to use a far inferior product, not to mention that you cannot easily share documents outside your org. As you mentioned, LibreOffice and MS Office have compatibility issues and the rest of the world uses MS Office. So prepare for issues every time you deal with someone outside your org (which is daily, obviously)

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

I honestly don't know how you can say that with a straight face. I love open source stuff and use it when I can, but there is no chance that the random office worker is going to have vastly less issues with Ubuntu and LibreOffice.

In the real world, working with small businesses, it's dramatic how many fewer issues we see. That's why flat rate support for Linux systems is lower, it takes so much less IT time to buy, license, install, and support. And I don't mean a "little" less, it's so much less.

Random office workers are a great example. They rarely do anything complicated and all they tend to need are their business LOB apps (they can't tell if they are on Windows or Ubuntu), web browser, and/or office tools. Often, people are switching on their own these days and don't even realize because they've already adapted to all web work. That's why we are finding Chromebooks in customer sites all the time, because they work and the customers don't even reach out to IT before deploying and people just adapt transparently.

Since end users don't interact with the OS in any meaningful way, most aren't completely clear that the OS has even changed. They use a start menu, desktop icons, or whatever to launch their apps and it's all transparent.

Linux is great, LibreOffice is garbage.

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

So you have to go to your NTG or whatever IT labor you use and open your pockets at $150-300 an hour when you have an issue.

The obvious examples would be things like Windows or MS Office vs. Ubuntu or LibreOffice.

I seriously have to question if people who like LibreOffice actually use it for business. It is terrible at so many things. This is coming from someone who has used an Ubuntu workstation with LibreOffice for the last 6 years while working for multiple companies. Microsoft Office is 1000x better, and makes collaboration much easier. I have spent so much time trying to get LibreOffice to work or read MS office documents (that everyone else uses), and there has been nothing but issues. Not to mention LibreOffice is slower than MS Office by a good margin. If you work with big documents, LibreOffice is a dog.

@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

@IRJ said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:

SMB doesn't factor in IT labor costs very often unless they are outsourcing

They also fail to evaluate the labor that they do pay for. And emotional reactions like "I paid a fortune to install this, it must have free support or need less support" tend to win the day without any foundation, research, or thought. Ask the average SMB buyer, and they'll actually tell you that they thought that the cost of the software was paying for support. Call Microsoft and see if you got free support with that Windows 10 purchase.

Well that is what you call a fool. Salesmen making fake promises isnt exclusive to IT.

If this is the norm, I guess that is why SMB IT is paid like shit, because they tend to be shit.

I'm not sure I understand the resentment on mangolassi of purchasing software. I've worked in many environments and FOSS is not always the best option for real companies. They are situation where it makes sense, but there are alot of situations when it doesn't.

SMB doesn't factor in IT labor costs very often unless they are outsourcing, and even then they rarely think past next week. I've seen mature FOSS applications be terrible in an enterprise environment and cost the enterprise wayyyyy more than just paying for software.

I don't get the elitist attitude of completely avoiding paid software solutions, although I guess it makes sense for a company that sells IT man hours to use FOSS because shut is guaranteed to break and you won't have support. So you have to go to your NTG or whatever IT labor you use and open your pockets at $150-300 an hour when you have an issue.

Only serve them through group policy

@JasGot said in How to hide a network printer:

Is there an easy way to prevent people from seeing a networked printer? If I setup a new printer on the network for three people to use, it doesn't take long before other user the Add Printer wizard in Windows 10 and are printing to it.

Is there a quick way to stop this?

Take their permission to add printers away..

Having this issue on another Ubuntu 20.04.

Same error as before, but everything seems to be installed correctly

vagrant plugin list
No plugins installed.

Got it working. Apparently I missed this step

apt-get install libxslt-dev libxml2-dev libvirt-dev zlib1g-dev ruby-dev

@stacksofplates said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

apt --reinstall vagrant-libvirt

Reinstall supposedly worked, but still not seeing plugin

@Pete-S said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

@IRJ said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

@stacksofplates said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

Do you have a /usr/share/vagrant-plugins/plugins.d/vagrant-libvirt.json file?

Yes

{
  "vagrant-libvirt": {
    "ruby_version":"2.5.1",
    "vagrant_version":"2.0.2",
    "gem_version":"",
    "require":"",
    "sources":[]
  }
}

Isn't 2.0.2 old as dirt? 2.2.9 is the current version.

I have 2.2.9 installed. Not sure why the config mentions that version

joel@systemname:~/.vagrant.d$ sudo apt install vagrant-libvirt
[sudo] password for joel: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
vagrant-libvirt is already the newest version (0.0.45-2).
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

So no plugins directory

@stacksofplates said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

@IRJ said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

@stacksofplates said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

vagrant plugin list

No plugins installed.

So I'm kind of shooting in the dark. Is there a plugins directory under ~/.vagrant.d/?

If there is what happens if you delete it?

~/.vagrant.d$ ls
boxes  data  gems  insecure_private_key  rgloader  setup_version  tmp

@stacksofplates said in Issues installing vagrant-libvirt plugin on Ubuntu 20.04:

vagrant plugin list

No plugins installed.