@JaredBusch said in What flavor of linux to replace windows?:

@scottalanmiller said in What flavor of linux to replace windows?:

@flaxking said in What flavor of linux to replace windows?:

What are the ERP application's dependencies?

.Net requires a Windows licence, but I believe Mono is supposed to be able to replace .Net 4.5 with feature parity

.NET not only doesn't require Windows, it's officially platform agnostic. Mono is basically dead because Microsoft moved .NET to being universally available. Not that Mono was bad, it was just never as good as "real" .NET. But now that both .NET and Visual Studio tools for it are available on Linux and MacOS too, there is no call for Mono really (and it will essentially vanish soon.)

https://www.microsoft.com/net/learn/dotnet/hello-world-tutorial

.Net Core and .Net Full are not the same. You can't try and run a compiled .Net Full app on .Net Core, but you can try to run it on Mono

What are the ERP application's dependencies?

.Net requires a Windows licence, but I believe Mono is supposed to be able to replace .Net 4.5 with feature parity

@scottalanmiller SAMIT video?

@dyasny So far my only complaint is that they are lacking in kubernetes related courses

In the past year I've have to quickly acquire some base knowledge in quite a few areas.

My strategy is first power through some Pluralsight videos. This gives me some familiarity with the theory behind the technology, and makes me more comfortable in planning something to do with it. I typically will not follow along with the videos.

I then do my own project with the technology. This typically makes me think more about what I am doing than if I just followed along with a video.

In reality, I would actuated prefer a book. I've used some books that effectively replace the two steps above. However, good books can be hard to find, and it feels like more of a waste when trying to use a poor book. And all the pluralsight series I have watched so far have been really solid. Also, it's easy to watch a video even if you aren't feeling motivated at the time.

@nerdydad said in Career Goals - Futures in Linux Careers:

I see that there is KVM and LXD and Kubernetes and OpenNAP.

That's kind of a weird list of things to put together. Is that like a solution stack you want to try?

Anyways, I would recommend getting vary familiar with monitoring and metrics. That's something that you can apply to your current job. Learn how to create meaningful alerts from the data being collected. The industry needs more people who can do this kind of stuff with their eyes closed, and less cowboys who put it off as a 'nice to have some day'. So you might want to get familiar with some open source options so you have something up your sleeve no matter where you're working and no matter the budget.

In 5 years we might be dealing with the descendant of Kubernetes, but you might as well get your foot in the door now since that kind of shit is the future.

@mangogeorge

I wonder if you could grab the cab file without needing to get it from the iso

https://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet-framework-docker/blob/master/3.5/runtime/windowsservercore-ltsc2016/Dockerfile

the download URI used in the script does seem to be specific to ltsc2016, but I wonder if that matters

@darrel haha, did you see the snow on Saturday?

The core of DevOps isn't anything new, so there wouldn't be a point with giving it a new name without the add-ons.

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

Then things like DevOps talking dev itself is the extra, the tack on later. It's not "part of" devops, any more than it is of any operations. And just how operations doesn't cease to exist without developers, neither does DevOps.

So, I agree that the 'Dev' part is comes after the core of DevOps. So you can practice the core of DevOps without Dev. However, I do not believe that the full complete picture of DevOps is possible without Dev.

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

What you're talking about is one aspect of part of implementing DevOps that is often misinterpreted to mean the whole of it. And yes, it is stupid to call that DevOps. That's just Ops using different tools.

I see it as the opposite. Patrick's core DevOps...

---

"Thanks to the devopsdays conference, the idea of devops seems to live on. While talking with other people about it, I realize that it is difficult to frame it within the current IT landscape. At lot of the ideas are coming from different kinds of emerging technologies (T) and process management (P) approaches.

For me the two most important observations are:

• there is a increase in feedback loops between business, all parts of the delivery process and operations
• thanks to this feedback loops we increase the quality and speed up the flow"

---

This is the core of DevOps, not well described, but pretty clearly about IT, not development. This is the core. Very, very loosely defined to the point of useless, sure.

Then things like DevOps talking dev itself is the extra, the tack on later. It's not "part of" devops, any more than it is of any operations. And just how operations doesn't cease to exist without developers, neither does DevOps.

I believe everything on that page is all meant to be within the context of companies doing development. But I agree, the core of DevOps is about Ops and Business practices. However, I firmly believe the name DevOps comes from Ops and Development working together, and thus the reason why discussions of DevOps implementation specifics centre around companies doing software development. Though just based on that page, I could see why someone could still take a different view. However, I consider The DevOps Handbook to be the definitive source, rather than notes on the initial discussions.

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

DevOps is not a department, and companies that uses titles like DevOps Engineer probably aren't really doing DevOps, just using some DevOps tools.

As someone who was in a DevOps department, separate from the non-DevOps SA department, it really is. Uncommon, but real.

DevOps is supposed to be interdepartmental. I would imagine this DevOps department would just be IT with the experience to support Development.

DevOps is using traditionally development processes to do SA work, "Software Defined Administration" it is sometimes called. You don't need developers to have DevOps, In fact, most DevOps shops have none.

Normal SAs support developers, probably better than DevOps does.

That is not DevOps. DevOps is a refactoring of Lean Manufacturing in order to apply to software companies. You can adopt DevOps principals without your own developers, but it you cannot do real DevOps without developers participating in the feedback loop.

We're talking the IT DevOps here, not the software teams using the term for their own stuff. That's the newer (AFAIK) add on term after the fact.

A proposed definition is "DevOps is a set of practices intended to reduce the time between committing a change to a system and the change being placed into normal production, while ensuring high quality." Which is key that it's an ops (aka IT) concern, not a software one. DevOps starts after dev stops. Dev makes a change, Ops puts it into production. DevOps is a type of ops designed to do so quicker and more accurately. But nowhere does that definition suggest that dev start doing ops, that ops start doing dev (of the software itself), or that the two merge or even talk. It's still a pure ops thing, just using techniques learned from dev.

Admittedly the name is ridiculous and probably intended to be misleading, although it didn't originate in English so maybe it's just poor English usage. Calling any form of ops with a "dev" title is just dumb. Ops is ops, dev is dev, using dev concepts in ops doesn't change it from being ops.

It is not the newer add-on, it is the original concept. http://www.jedi.be/blog/2009/12/22/charting-out-devops-ideas/

What you're talking about is one aspect of part of implementing DevOps that is often misinterpreted to mean the whole of it. And yes, it is stupid to call that DevOps. That's just Ops using different tools.

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

DevOps is not a department, and companies that uses titles like DevOps Engineer probably aren't really doing DevOps, just using some DevOps tools.

As someone who was in a DevOps department, separate from the non-DevOps SA department, it really is. Uncommon, but real.

DevOps is supposed to be interdepartmental. I would imagine this DevOps department would just be IT with the experience to support Development.

DevOps is using traditionally development processes to do SA work, "Software Defined Administration" it is sometimes called. You don't need developers to have DevOps, In fact, most DevOps shops have none.

Normal SAs support developers, probably better than DevOps does.

That is not DevOps. DevOps is a refactoring of Lean Manufacturing in order to apply to software companies. You can adopt DevOps principals without your own developers, but it you cannot do real DevOps without developers participating in the feedback loop.

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@flaxking said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

DevOps is not a department, and companies that uses titles like DevOps Engineer probably aren't really doing DevOps, just using some DevOps tools.

As someone who was in a DevOps department, separate from the non-DevOps SA department, it really is. Uncommon, but real.

DevOps is supposed to be interdepartmental. I would imagine this DevOps department would just be IT with the experience to support Development.

@emad-r said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

DevOps

DevOps Engineer maybe could be a job title, but it's almost certainly not what you are doing in your job.

DevOps Admin could possibly be a job title, for someone who administers the DevOps tools.

DevOps is not a department, and companies that uses titles like DevOps Engineer probably aren't really doing DevOps, just using some DevOps tools.

@matteo-nunziati said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

Doker images on kubernates are awesome but if you have to manage your data center doing ansible + docker over just ansible is not gaining a lot imho.

Well, if IT is trying to use Docker without container orchestration then there's not much benefit to be gained there at all

@matteo-nunziati said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@emad-r said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@matteo-nunziati said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@scottalanmiller said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@matteo-nunziati said in Check my 2 min audio theory on Containers:

@emad-r actually The main benefit of containers is to disconnect sysadmin and devel work.

Not really. Containers are virtualization like any other, they've been around for decades and the idea that they were anything for developers is an extremely recent use case of only a very specific subset of containers. Most containers, and most of the history of containers, don't do anything like that, no more than any other kind of virtualization.

Yes but I think here we are talking docker. Docker is like python virtual envs for anything and not just for python. This is their main meaning to me.

Sure, if we are talking Docker and not talking Containerization, then Docker just seems like a sloppy, error prone way to do that.

My biggest issue with Docker is that it seems to make things worse rather than better. More complexity, more things to break, more dependencies. It introduces the very problems it claims to solve, problems that we weren't experiencing previously.

It does that, it does create more complexity at first.

Installing an app for us is much easier, like PHP-FPM + apache, it is only 10 commands or something, however if you did in docker/container in VPS you get the extra benefit of having clean environment in the host OS always + the container can be moved around easily to another VPS + it is much easier for non smart people to get your app and its updates + Docker provides free accout to publish one app.

Also the performance aspect is very good, but the storing this is bad abit.

The key idea here it is not currently hyper visor replacement, it is complementary tool that is good when you have service/server that does not need to store data.

While I find useful to have a package+config easily moveable I would syggest to manage staless services with ansible/salt and their playbooks if you want automation at sysadmin level.

The only pro of docker as a sysadmin tool is you have a good ecosystem with a lot of automation already done. With ansible/salt I don't know if you can pick from repos or you need to write everything from scratch.

The semi-equivalent of the docker pattern with ansible/salt is if you killed the server each time it you were going to do a configuration change or update, and redeployed it with your configuration. Then your CM has to bootstrap it before it is ready. Or you let your CM configure it, then image it and deploy the image... but you're just reinventing the wheel here, because that's what you do with Docker and you get smaller sized images.

So if the server doesn't make sense to use Docker for, maybe it's because it won't fit neatly into an immutable pattern?

Though your configuration as code being dockerfiles is not as nice.

It'll be a year since I've done it, but at that time I just made sure the files copied on to every computer. Not sure what else the powershell script does except for set an environment variable

My lunch, ibuprofen, and my dumbphone

Don't worry, they're just jealous of our ice castles. I'll send you a PM