@Mike-Davis said in FreePBX and SonicWall intermittent inbound calls:
@FiyaFly Well, it inconsistent is how it was behaving.
Fair point. Fair point indeed. lol. I will admit, I have a rule of thumb with inconsistent problems. If it's on a computer, first assumption is hardware.
For something like this, first assumption is Firewall, and more specifically NAT.
@JaredBusch said in FreePBX and SonicWall intermittent inbound calls:
@FiyaFly said in FreePBX and SonicWall intermittent inbound calls:
@Mike-Davis said in FreePBX and SonicWall intermittent inbound calls:
Found the magic checkbox. Under SIP settings, had to check the box for Enable consistent NAT. I did have to reboot the phone for the change to take effect.
When we checked the box for "Enable SIP Transformations" we got the one way audio thing. On the remote side. the phone would ring and ring and eventually go to voicemail. On the local side, the phone would ring, and he would answer, but couldn't hear anything.
"Enable Consistent NAT".... I guess maybe I have some learning to do here, but NAT can be inconsistent?!
By default. That is normal. Every new connection should get a random port. This setting breaks that.
Okay, then maybe i just misunderstood it. I knew that was the concept of NAT, but the way I read it was that it was essentially always changing ports for one connection.
@Mike-Davis said in FreePBX and SonicWall intermittent inbound calls:
Found the magic checkbox. Under SIP settings, had to check the box for Enable consistent NAT. I did have to reboot the phone for the change to take effect.
When we checked the box for "Enable SIP Transformations" we got the one way audio thing. On the remote side. the phone would ring and ring and eventually go to voicemail. On the local side, the phone would ring, and he would answer, but couldn't hear anything.
"Enable Consistent NAT".... I guess maybe I have some learning to do here, but NAT can be inconsistent?!
For giggles and grins, make sure you have ports 10000-20000 open to the PBX. In theory you already do, or at least some of them, and STUN should have fixed the rest, but doesn't hurt to check. You can also get someone to check the PBX logs when you try a call. If you can't during the day I can this afternoon
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Mike-Davis said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I don't think people have paid much attention to the question at hand though. For $8,000 a bachelors degree in 1 year?
I might do it. It's only 1 year of learning and not earning, and then you have the 4 year degree for all it's worth. If you're in your 20s it may open doors that weren't open to you before.
That said, what if it was 1 year of learning, while still working full-time? Because the main concept is testing out and working at your own pace, in theory you could still work and go for a degree.
The fact that you can just test out of it kinda proves it's not worth anything - heck, you should get a job debunking those places if this actually worked out.. you should go on the preaching about how worthless this paper mill is so employers stop giving them any credibility.
Agreed lol. Maybe I could make a difference on the social mentality of this being a requirement. Even without factoring in certifications, there are standardized exams to cover the first two years of a Bachelor's, which is just GenEd, then considering I've been in the field for six years I could put together a portfolio and get that reviewed to get some credit off of it. Then, from there, either test out of classes or see what else I could do to apply credit. It's a pretty logical process from how I read it, but you're right. That essentially proves, at the very least, it is equivalent to experience(but we know where those two actually rank in accordance to each other). But, businesses will still filter by degree.
Here is my thought on the entire thing- the main thing businesses are trying to do is narrow it down to the most likely candidate to be productive and knowledgeable. They are looking for the quickest and easiest methods to doing that because, hey, who wants to go the hard road when you can take the efficient one? So, they try to find a common denominator which is meant to show a higher knowledge of something. Since they cannot easily find a single, specific denominator for tech (there are hundreds of certifications, making it a bit harder. Though, some are leaning towards those as well) they take the general one, which is a degree. It is seen as "Since you spent four years specifically and likely solely improving your knowledge and education, we are going to assume that you know more than those who don't, and you put a higher value on education, meaning you may be better as well for climbing the ladder."
That's my two-cents on it.
@Mike-Davis said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I don't think people have paid much attention to the question at hand though. For $8,000 a bachelors degree in 1 year?
I might do it. It's only 1 year of learning and not earning, and then you have the 4 year degree for all it's worth. If you're in your 20s it may open doors that weren't open to you before.
That said, what if it was 1 year of learning, while still working full-time? Because the main concept is testing out and working at your own pace, in theory you could still work and go for a degree.
@travisdh1 said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly Well, I'm going to be finding out for real here soon. I'll see how things go.
How so?
@travisdh1 said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Dashrender Well, here's my point. I can find studies, statistics, and reports all pointing toward a significantly high correlation in the requirement of a degree.
Unless the entire country is in on this attempt to con you into college, I have to assume at least someone would have taken time to show that this isn't the case.
Most people have invested crazy amounts of time and money to get that piece of paper. And let's be honest here, it really is only a piece of paper.
We've had at least one long conversation about this here already.
Here's where it seems to get lost on what I'm saying- I absolutely agree with you. It's educational merit is, literally, nonexistent. You will not learn a single thing from college classes that you could not have learned in the real world a whole lot easier. It's ignorant and a significant ploy for money.
Problem is, we're the minority in that line of though enough to where a lot of jobs require it to be considered. We can argue 'They have no idea what they're talking about' and 'there's something seriously wrong with that company', but since this happens at a majority of companies, that makes us very, very limited in job choice. I'd love to be able to write off any company that does that. But, as I said, enough do to the point of finding it hard to be even considered by a job, let alone being able to choose which one out of a set you find most appealing.
@Dashrender Well, here's my point. I can find studies, statistics, and reports all pointing toward a significantly high correlation in the requirement of a degree.
Unless the entire country is in on this attempt to con you into college, I have to assume at least someone would have taken time to show that this isn't the case.
@scottalanmiller
Can you point me to some statistics on all of this?
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I had actually planned to have an article out about why everyone feels that lacking degrees are holding them back and why you can't determine that from that evidence. But then we had the funeral to get to. I'll have this out soon, though. It's really important to understand why lacking a degree will almost certainly make it feel that way when it is not true.
I agree it may always feel that way, regardless. However, it also seems to be true
This might be a good read on the topic- http://burning-glass.com/wp-content/uploads/Moving_the_Goalposts.pdf
In the key findings portion of that document:
In other occupations, such as entry level IT help desk
positions, the skill sets indicated in job
postings don’t include skills typically taught at the bachelor’s level, and there is little difference in skill
requirements for jobs requiring a college degree from those that do not. Yet the preference for a
bachelor’s degree has increased. This suggests that employers may be relying on a B.A. as a broad
recruitment filter that may or may not correspond to specific capabilities needed to do the job.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I had actually planned to have an article out about why everyone feels that lacking degrees are holding them back and why you can't determine that from that evidence. But then we had the funeral to get to. I'll have this out soon, though. It's really important to understand why lacking a degree will almost certainly make it feel that way when it is not true.
I agree it may always feel that way, regardless. However, it also seems to be true
This might be a good read on the topic- http://burning-glass.com/wp-content/uploads/Moving_the_Goalposts.pdf
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Maybe what Scott's saying is that the degree doesn't matter because in reality there are no jobs to be had. So having a degree, not having a degree, really doesn't matter because there are no jobs.
Now that I can understand, to an extent. Though, looking at Job Search sites there isn't much of a shortage...
Also, using this as a primary evidence. Go onto dice.com, indeed.com, monster.com, and search for IT jobs. Tell me how many come up as not needing a degree.
@Son-of-Jor-El said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Maybe what Scott's saying is that the degree doesn't matter because in reality there are no jobs to be had. So having a degree, not having a degree, really doesn't matter because there are no jobs.
I would have to disagree with you on that. It depends on the area, obviously. Plenty in the Boston area. Hell, I've seen articles talking about a lack of candidates for IT jobs there.
I actually usually see general articles conveying a lack of candidates in IT jobs overall.
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Maybe what Scott's saying is that the degree doesn't matter because in reality there are no jobs to be had. So having a degree, not having a degree, really doesn't matter because there are no jobs.
Now that I can understand, to an extent. Though, looking at Job Search sites there isn't much of a shortage...
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
By putting limits on yourself (not wanting to move, etc) you are really hurting your job finding, and in the long run hurting your family. If there are no jobs in Shithole, Kentucky that pay well, move somewhere else that has high paying jobs.
Its like the people who live in flood deltas and have had their house destroyed multiple times, refuse to move because of sentimental reasons.But, the question is which is the bigger limit, college or not college. Statistics say that college is the limiter that you put on yourself by limiting your time to learn and build your career.
I completely understand this, but if you can't get past HR, who cares how many cool projects you've setup in a lab?
Right. Were I to get a college degree, never mistake that for I no longer think I need to learn. I'd figure I learned nothing from obtaining it. But, it might just be the key to get past one more gate.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
Certs as certs, yes. Certs as a double dip to buy a fake degree, no.
The entire concept is using tests and prior knowledge and experience to essentially get a degree that you already knew the material about. Not really time invested. "Fake Degree" will require a bit more explanation. Fake to you, or the employer? Fake to you, hell yeah. To me college itself is an ignorant endeavor that I don't even want to consider. My degree would be fake to me even if I went through traditional college, because the process is fundamentally flawed. Fake to the employer? A degree from a regionally accredited college? Seems to me, maybe not.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
By putting limits on yourself (not wanting to move, etc) you are really hurting your job finding, and in the long run hurting your family. If there are no jobs in Shithole, Kentucky that pay well, move somewhere else that has high paying jobs.
Its like the people who live in flood deltas and have had their house destroyed multiple times, refuse to move because of sentimental reasons.But, the question is which is the bigger limit, college or not college. Statistics say that college is the limiter that you put on yourself by limiting your time to learn and build your career.
First- to @momurda . I agree. It's something I'm contending with, and honestly should be able to pull away from at the end of the year.
@scottalanmiller , to me this implies that you limit yourself because you feel like "Well, I've already learned everything I need to to get my dream job. I don't need to learn anything else." Currently, even with this thread, I see a degree as a very expensive piece of paper that does me nothing (This is the way I see anything considered public education overall.) It's not that I intend to learn with a degree. More of ensure that it is not hindering me from progressing.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Something huge to consider... everyone without a degree tells the story that without a degree you can't get a job. But the people will degrees all talk about how there are no jobs at all. The difference is, one has a longer time to find work, more time to learn skills, less debt. In a market where college is now widely known to not get you a job, the risks of going the "safe" college route are higher than ever. It's an emotional panic response to not finding instant work to feel like lacking a degree is holding you back. But did those positions get filled by people with the same level of experience or less, but with a degree? Not likely.
The point on this is actually obtaining a degree with very little time and money invested due to, hell, already knowing enough about the majority of what they have to teach to be able to pass a test on it.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
I had actually planned to have an article out about why everyone feels that lacking degrees are holding them back and why you can't determine that from that evidence. But then we had the funeral to get to. I'll have this out soon, though. It's really important to understand why lacking a degree will almost certainly make it feel that way when it is not true.
I'll see what I can find tonight.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Breffni-Potter said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
The need for a degree is due to the HR machine, would that HR machine look at the school in question and filter you out automatically?
This is something that people mention a lot and it definitely happens in the absolute lowest end jobs. But how often does it actually happen? I've never seen it in real life.
Yes. I've been told 'No' to jobs I qualified for based on their requirements posted to a "T", and have actually gotten automatic replies from some of them. Either that, or their HR was working late and looked at my resume and scoffed anyway.
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
Even if it were free, it's not likely worth it. The time alone normally hurts you too much. And the further you are from 17, the less good it does.
Let me ask you a base question- Do you agree with the concept of certs?
@scottalanmiller said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
However, I have been doing some reading on getting a bachelor's degree because it seems to be getting harder and harder to get a job without a degree. I stumbled across this little nugget of information:
This is a total lie. It's a fabrication from people with degrees trying to justify the decisions that they made.
That was a because. Personal experience. I'd love to say it's bull. Truly, I would. But, in my experience in my area, it really isn't.
@Son-of-Jor-El said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
This is just me generally speaking, but you don't need it to be successful. I can think of 1 example right off the top of my head. My best friend doesn't have a degree, yet works for ADP at home and he's in the 6 figures.
I fully agree. It is plenty possible. It's not easy, but it's possible.
@momurda said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
A degree should only be relevant when you are in your early or mid 20s looking for your first real job. Im 37 next month and if someone wont hire me because I dont have a BS from 15 years ago, well they can do without my superior(most of the time)skills. Ill go work for myself or find someone that will hire me.
Will it even matter in 20 years when worldwide employment rate is 5-10% due to automation in all fields?
A bit off topic, but i much prefer the term Curriculum Vitae (life's work) to resume.
A problem I run into is even with 6 years experience in IT, I don't even get contacted back for anything higher than entry-level. I'm in my early-mid 20's, but I'm far from my first job. Jobs in my area are tight, period. and this is where my family is, so I intend to stick around, at least for a while longer. I wish I could give the entire concept the finger and walk away from anywhere like that, but the truth is when you have no jobs that'll consider you because you have no degree, and you're in a position of needing a job... Your mindset changes.
@FiyaFly said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
@Dashrender said in If you could get a Bachelor's Degree for under $8,000 in less than a year... would you?:
This is the double edged sword of employment.
We see Scott running around here claiming that the places you want to work don't require a degree - but then we have posts like this that say that the jobs they are seeing do.
I haven't been job hunting in a while - but the last time I was, I do recall seeing a lot that wanted it (and sometimes or equivalent experience).
This is just a hard place to be in. I think if you can find a good placement agency, that might give you leg up, but some many of those places just seem shady.
Here's actually my fear- https://www.fastcompany.com/3057941/the-future-of-work/how-the-masters-degree-became-the-new-bachelors-in-the-hiring-world
. Mind you, I haven't personally seen the changes that are noted in that article, but it does get me wondering. At the very least, it gets me thinking I should get a bachelor's degree.Legitimately every single job posting I have ran across requires a Bachelor's. Often they'll say or equivalent experience, but it seems to be obvious that they're looking for one.
ALSO not to mention that is one of the easiest filtering methods of applicants. I see it looked at this way- A degree isn't necessarily bad, so if we filter out who doesn't have a degree, we're still picking the top of the candidates.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some places that do automatic filtering for Resume's, and they may use this as one of the criteria. In other words, they may not even acknowledge that you exist or ever see your resume if you don't have a degree.
