Posts made by Carnival Boy

I'm not lashing our or upset in any way. I've told you two facts about me, that I work for a Microsoft ISV and the I don't own a personal laptop. From that, you've drawn a huge number of untrue assumptions, such as I'm not really IT, I don't need to do any training, I'm not a good employee, I don't care about my career, and I have a European mindset.

I find these assumptions stupid, lazy and ignorant and so there's no basis on which I can continue engage with them. You're free to say whatever you like, but I don't have to reply. I mean what more are you expecting from me? Some kind of epiphany? Really?

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

What do you do outside of MS and ERP? Why make your team broad, if the company doesn't consider doing anything outside of the immediate scope per your other description? It's interesting to be so focused yet have a broad idea of learning.

I work for an ISV, not a VAR, but I don't get hung up on descriptions - we're a software house basically. Microsoft's business applications are extremely broad - ERP, CRM, Power BI, Power Apps - it's as broad as you want to make it, no-one could become an expert in everything, you have to specialise to a degree.

But look, we're getting in ad hominem replies now. I don't see the relevance. I get that this is primarily a forum for US MSPs and I'm a European ERP specialist, but I'm just offering my perspective. But when it gets to the level of replies (IRJ, not you) that say I'm not really IT, or that I don't need any training because I can fall back on Microsoft, or I don't have the commitment of "real" IT people then it's getting pointless.

And it's depressing to hear an American think that Europeans don't have the right "mindset", have it easier, and don't unlock their full potential. I don't really have any interest in engaging with that level of ignorance of other countries.

So I'll call it quits.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

My main point is that people should have laptops of their own when being hired.

Yeah, it's a minor point and my replies are minor, but we've dragged it on for a week without getting anywhere

Like I said, I've never owned a laptop in my working life. But I've also been lucky in that I've never been unemployed, so always had a laptop. Like many IT people, my laptop is almost like a fifth limb, an extension of my body, something I carry around like a child's comfort blanket, something that brings me out in cold sweats if it ever stops working. It's the most important inanimate object in my life, the first thing I pack when going on holiday (I'm sounding quite sad now).

But, but, but. I simply don't see the need for two laptops in my life. If I didn't have a work laptop, like say, I was unemployed, then of course, I would have my own. But that's never happened. I just don't see the benefit of having two devices in my house and I don't understand what you think I could do differently if I had two devices. What is it I can't do on just one device?

@IRJ said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

You mentioned you'd fire a client for not using Microsoft products. That seems more like a sales engineer position to me. You don't really need any training because you can always fall back on Microsoft for support.

Ha, if only. I implement Microsoft ERP systems. If a client decides to migrate to, say, SAP or Oracle, then they will fire me, as I'm a Microsoft specialist. I don't fire them.

Microsoft don't provide support for ERP, we're on our own. They only do bug fixes. Basically, I am Microsoft support.

I work quite a bit with US clients and I think you'll find there isn't that much difference between the US and Europe these days in terms of mindset.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

It goes almost without saying that the things we value you'd hate as an employee.

Try me

We aren't a "here is the thing that you do" kind of company. We cross train, we constantly do new things, we take on different technology all of the time, everyone spends their days advising non-IT on approaches, options, looking for improvements to process, and so forth

We do all of those things to. I still don't know why you'd think we don't.

As usual, you've just jumped to conclusions about someone based on a spurious metric (they don't own a PC).

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

if your employer decided to let you go, you'd be without a computer and if you want to get to serious job hunting or skill expansion to prepare for your next position you'd be in the position of not being ready to hit the ground running, have to buy a computer in a rush at the worst possible time, and having to do so at a time when most people would be moving into an austerity budget.

So I should buy a laptop now, even though I don't need one, just in case my employer decided to let me go?

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

So that's a great example of things I worry about with my team. If the team only really knows one thing here are a few business risks...

Your business risks are all valid, but this is why when I was running an internal IT department I would encourage my team to learn and explore other potential technologies. If we were running SQL Server, look into other databases. If the servers are all Windows, put a Linux sandbox in. This was all part of learning and developing the team, and keeping their passion for IT. Never stand still.

But the key point here is that this was all part of their job. Learning other technologies was part of their job, for precisely the reason you've mentioned - risk management. And all that learning was done on their work laptops.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

think you are mixing the concepts of people we'd hire vs. those we continue to employ. 100% I want people who learn on their own when we hire them, which is why they need a computer at home already. Like I keep saying, I generally recommend providing tools to employees, but much less likely to potential employees.
An employee whose laptop dies and needs a replacement, we provide those.

I think it's odd to distinguish between the two. By your criteria you wouldn't now employ your own team if they applied for their own position?

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

In your example I'm sure MS' ERP products are working fine. They might even be the best choice. But will they always be the best choice?

Well, I work for a Microsoft partner, so if my clients decide Microsoft is no longer the best choice they're not going to remain as my client.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

I'm not asking (at all, I make no request) them to spend that time learning things instead of being with family or whatever, but we hire creative, interesting people that we hope are taking an interest in... things. IT sure, development maybe, other hobbies and so forth. People who are pushing themselves to grow. IT is business, and business is broad. Essentially all knowledge benefits business eventually.

Weren't you literally arguing that anyone who doesn't study IT that is unrelated to the IT in their day job, in their own time, on their own laptop, is not a "GOOD" employee and you wouldn't want to hire them?

Most of my team have interesting hobbies - archery, hunting, pottery, house renovating, scout leadership, and most of them study and learn in their own time. But that study is all related to our day jobs - Microsoft business applications. No-one is learning Linux (for example) for fun as far as I know. My simple argument is that I am fine with that and don't consider any of my team BAD employees as a result. It appears you do.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

I work more like 80-100 hours per week, and I agree that getting sleep is really hard for sure (that's more about my dogs than my work, though) but I get tons and tons of time with my kids.

How much non-work related IT learning do you do a week?

Average 90 hours of work, that's 13 hours a day. Let's say an hour or exercise, an hour for eating (assuming someone else is cooking for you), an hour for showering, dressing etc. An hour for life chores (DIY, ironing, tax returns etc), an hour with the kids, an hour for non-IT hobbies (though surely you must spend more than that recording and editing your YouTube travelogue) - that's 18 hours. We're down to 6 hours left. Then we have time with friends and family (1 hour?), and time travelling (1 hour?). That leaves you with 4 hours for sleep and everything else. I don't see how you can sit down and do extra IT learning?

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

You are attempting to make me feel badly for wanting to hire and promote based on performance. This isn't a welfare program. We have a fiduciary duty here. Ethics alone say that we have to think this way. Anything else is just stealing from the investors.

No, I’m saying your myopic world view means you’re not going to hire the best candidates. I don’t care how you feel.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

But GOOD employees want to learn for learning sake - not necessarily about things you'd do for work. And the difference in mind set between those who have broad learning capabilities, those who desire to always grow and those that limit growth, knowledge and education to what is given at work alone (e.g. easily manipulated by employers) stands out immediately in their ability to discuss, think outside of the box, be flexible, etc.

Wow, upper case for emphasis. I work in the Microsoft ERP space, and find keeping up with their new technology absolutely exhausting. They've gone from major releases every 2 years, to every 6 months, plus so much new, and exciting, stuff - as well as pure ERP, I'm studying for certs in Power Apps and Power BI. I have to take an exam every year just to stay certified.

I'm always learning and trying to keep up, but no-one knows it all, there is more to know that any one person can learn. On top of that, clients just seem to get more and more demanding, especially when the economy is struggling. I find my job pretty intense and stressful, but generally enjoyable, and put in around 40 solid hours per week, which leaves me spent.

On top of work, there's the usual life things - raising two teenagers, looking after elderly parents, maintaining the house, physical and mental health issues, exercising, the usual stuff everyone deals with. I'd like to have more time for hobbies but never seem to. I used to be pretty serious about photography but haven't touched my camera in a few years. Heck, I'd like to have more time for sleep!

Keeping a work/life balance is hard. Scott will say work is life, but sometimes I'm spending time with my kids and I'm only giving them 50% because my mind is whirling through all the things I need to do for my clients, which makes me feel terrible.

I'm not complaining about my life, I know many, many people who have it a lot worse than me. I know I have it lucky. But it irks me a bit to be called a BAD employee. Like I guess most people on this forum, I'm just clinging on and doing my best!

And on top of all that I'm supposed to do more IT learning, just for the sake of it? I often feel I'm barely keeping my head above the water as it is. So you think that makes me a BAD employee? Fine, I don't know why I'm getting into a discussion with someone who posts YouTube videos putting people down. Good luck to your employees, sorry you'd never work with me.

What I'm wondering is, are your employees not allowed to learn at work? Is all their learning expected to be done in their own time, at their own expense, on their own computers? Because that's a very different culture to European companies, where learning and self-improvement is an integral part of the job.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

Phone. If you don't want a computer, what about a smart phone. Do you skip that too? If not, what makes the phone acceptable but not a computer with a keyboard? Why one and not the other? Especially as phones typically cost a lot more and are dramatically more intrusive in our lives.

My phone cost $200, my work laptop $1500. But they're completely different devices, although pretty much everything you can do on a PC you can do on a phone or tablet, as millions of people around the world without a PC will testify.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

College education. Or any education. How did you get into the field in the first place? You must have at some point had a different opinion to have learned enough skills to get into the job. What made you want to learn without a job at one point, but no longer?

Well I studied Economics. We had this thing called books, by people like Adam Smith and Maynard Keynes. But again, you seem to be under the impression that it is impossible to learn at work. I don't understand why you would think that. I am learning constantly, and taking exams and getting certs, it never ends in IT.

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

If you feel that using your own computer would make you hate your career,

Say what? How do you get to that conclusion?

@scottalanmiller said in SAMIT: Should You Provide Equipment for Work from Home Staff?:

THe use of computers makes all of them more efficient, and lowers the cost of the technology. I've never met someone who could forego having a computer at home and remain able to easily stay in contact in a modern, efficient way; could consume and fact check news and events, could remain educated and feel functional like modern people. When I encounter people who don't have computers at home, it's always noticeable. REALLY noticeable. They tend to get their world view from TikTok, be widely out of touch with reality, be easily manipulated and emotionally driven, have little human interaction, fail to grow personally and professionally.

It's amazing that civilisation survived before the age of the internet, huh? How weren't people just walking around in a complete haze not knowing what was going on?

You seem to think that if you don’t own your own computer you can’t learn, or develop, or write, or research, or be passionate? I do all of these things on my work laptop.

I'm the opposite - if a prospective employer expected me to provide my own IT equipment it would be a red flag and I probably wouldn't want to work for them.

I've never owned a PC during my 25+ year working life. I've always just been given company laptops.

I am passionate about my job, but I have other passions too - hobbies, friends, family. 40 odd hours a week devoted to IT in my job is enough. As it is, I don't have enough spare time to do all the other things I want to do with my life, like learning to play the guitar.

I would say "choppy audio & slow internet" = "does not work at all"