what language used in Mangolassi

scottalanmiller

wow, interesting

JavaScript has been the biggest language for new projects for the last two or three years. That doesn't mean that most projects use it by any stretch, but as far as "interest from the development community", JS has been the biggest thing. It is by far what people talk about. If you see interesting new projects today (Rocket.chat for example) there is a really high chance that it is JavaScript.

scottalanmiller

@IT-ADMIN said:

and for facebook.com, and youtube.com ??

Facebook is older than Node.js. They use a custom compiled PHP system.

YouTube, no idea. It's very old.

IT-ADMIN

@scottalanmiller but PHP still has the lion share in the web market, isn't it??

scottalanmiller

@IT-ADMIN said:

@scottalanmiller but PHP still has the lion share in the web market, isn't it??

Because things are not rewritten. It definitely has very little of the share of things being written today.

scottalanmiller

It's like asking.... what do you mostly use to build a house, stone or wood?

Well... most houses that exist are built with stone. But most built today are made of wood.

If you want to know about building something new, why do you care what old code is sitting around out there?

I think you are asking one question but looking for an answer to something else and don't realize that you are asking something different than what I think it is that you want to know.

IT-ADMIN

@scottalanmiller said:

@IT-ADMIN said:

@scottalanmiller but PHP still has the lion share in the web market, isn't it??

Because things are not rewritten. It definitely has very little of the share of things being written today.

Oh! i see

scottalanmiller

PHP remains a major language. But modern development has moved heavily to Ruby and then on to JavaScript and GoLang. For "web applications."

Java and C# are still important, as is PHP. But if you want to know what languages "matter" if you are looking at starting a new project, PHP would be in the top ten to consider, but not in the top three.

IT-ADMIN

precious advice, thanks for that

scottalanmiller

If I was going to be starting a new project, and without having any additional information to tell me what would make sense, I would be most interested in roughly this order...

JavaScript / node.js
Ruby (likely on Rails)
GoLang
PHP
Groovy
Python
Java
C#

I probably missed something, but that's the idea.

IT-ADMIN

the most interesting thing in node.js is that you can do the whole project with a single language javascript (server side and client side) not like other server side languages like ASP.net or PHP where you have to use 2 different languages (i mean PHP and javascript or ASP.net and javascript )

scottalanmiller

@IT-ADMIN said:

the most interesting thing in node.js is that you can do the whole project with a single language javascript (server side and client side) not like other server side languages like ASP.net or PHP where you have to use 2 different languages (i mean PHP and javascript or ASP.net and javascript )

That's "interesting" but I'd label it as "trivial." It's very, very far from why anyone cares about Node.js. It's neat, but really, doesn't matter. The server code and the client code are unrelated. Not much benefit there.

IT-ADMIN

then what is attractive about node.js ??

scottalanmiller

@IT-ADMIN said:

then what is attractive about node.js ??

Non-blocking single threaded performance is 99% what people care about.

scottalanmiller

Try doing this with PHP...

var http = require("http");
var server = http.createServer(function(request, response) {
  response.writeHead(200, {"Content-Type": "text/html"});
  response.write("<!DOCTYPE "html">");
  response.write("<html>");
  response.write("<head>");
  response.write("<title>Hello World Page</title>");
  response.write("</head>");
  response.write("<body>");
  response.write("Hello World!");
  response.write("</body>");
  response.write("</html>");
  response.end();
});

server.listen(80);
console.log("Server is listening");

Then save it as webdemo.js and...

node webdemo.js

Jason

@scottalanmiller said:

@IT-ADMIN said:

wow, interesting

JavaScript has been the biggest language for new projects for the last two or three years. That doesn't mean that most projects use it by any stretch, but as far as "interest from the development community", JS has been the biggest thing. It is by far what people talk about. If you see interesting new projects today (Rocket.chat for example) there is a really high chance that it is JavaScript.

What ever happened to Ruby on Rails? It was suppose to be thing that was going to take over... But never did

scottalanmiller

@Jason said:

What ever happened to Ruby on Rails? It was suppose to be thing that was going to take over... But never did

It did quite a bit and is still a major development platform. It probably remains the best tool for the developers themselves. It has huge performance issues and that held it back in larger deployments. Good developers can fix that, but by default, it struggles. Node.js came along at just the right time to steal its thunder and has remained the go to tool since.

tonyshowoff

Node.js is getting steadily more popular, but PHP still is used to create new projects, it's just that many projects today are client heavy and asynchronous and PHP can't run on the client and the asynchronous aspects are pretty much garbage, though it's began to improve, but slowly.

There are still issues with Node.js which are issues inherent in JavaScript itself, such as ..

No strict typing, which PHP now has, though with TypeScript and Flow you can sort of mimic it; but then again you could do that in PHP back in the day too and it still sucked and slowed things down a lot, just as it does in JS.
There's a unified number type, i.e. all numbers are floats, therefore 1.0000000000000001 === 1, even in strict comparison
Instead of a hash map, it uses objects, and create all sorts of damn nightmares
The "prototype" system is dog turds
Inheretence is messed up, badly
Depending on your structure, "this" may point to something completely unexpected, such as the parent, or parent's parent, etc.
On that topic, no classes, though this is fixed in the next version of JS
All object keys are strings
All objects are passed by reference regardless of how often you copy them, so you have to create a loop or use a framework to deal with this

Some of this stuff node.js works around or implements future versions of the standard for, but it's still very lacking. However, it may not do the best job, but it does an OK job very well, reliably, and fast.

In our environments we use mostly PHP 7 (all strict typing now, opcache, etc) and also node.js for chat systems, our web cam system has been moved to it, etc. We've also redone all of our last remaining Ruby stuff and put it into PHP 7 for the most part (because they were incorporated into current PHP projects), and one project with node.js (since it was a rewrite from scratch). The primary thing keeping us from switching only to node.js, is what I mentioned above in addition to there's no easy way to convert millions of lines of code for 7 web sites to node.js and transition everything seamlessly... yet. There will be.

Having said that, Ruby is slow as hell, very slow, and Python is even slower. Not only that, both Ruby and Python, it's much harder to get going on projects, you can't just open a text editor and start, you have to go through an ordeal to start a project, setup all your gems, and your eggs, and blah blah, fart, fart. I think this is one of the main things that turns people off when they try to start learning it, meanwhile they can just go write PHP or JS without doing a bunch of extra work like the compiler is the Kremlin or something.

I think the future is with node.js though, because it's the same language on front and backend, you can't beat that. PHP will almost certainly be easily converted to node.js in time, especially if better typing and OOP comes along. It's simply a matter of converting the syntax, creating replacements for PHP's massive native library (which has been underway for a while), and a few other things. Certainly converting from PHP to node.js when the time is right will be a breeze compared to so Lisp or BASIC handicapped language.

With asm.js, cross compiling PHP 7 to node.js may be the way to go once more coverage is available. This way you can still write your PHP 7 and just cross compile. It works with other languages as well. I've been thoroughly impressed with asm.js and to save time, I'm counting on node.js's takeover to push things like asm.js or full-conversion projects forward. I may even write a PHP -> JS converter myself if nobody else does.

scottalanmiller

PHP 7 is definitely a big move that puts PHP solidly back on the map. PHP pre-7 was pretty "meh", but with 7 it has a bit of new life. It's a good language, for sure. But doing a new project in it would not be, often, my first choice.

tonyshowoff

@scottalanmiller said:

PHP 7 is definitely a big move that puts PHP solidly back on the map. PHP pre-7 was pretty "meh", but with 7 it has a bit of new life. It's a good language, for sure. But doing a new project in it would not be, often, my first choice.

If not for strict typing with PHP 7, I openly said I was going to move to either Go or node.js, probably would've been node.js, but at the time I was open to either. Even though node.js doesn't have strict typing, avoiding it for the next major release of PHP would've been a sign the show was over. Plenty of people fought against it, claiming "PHP is becoming Java," hell I wish it would. The power of Java with the coverage of PHP? Man, that'd be great, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

scottalanmiller

Yeah, I love Java as a language. It's not perfect, but it is very good.