Windows 10 Free for Upgrade
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@thanksaj said:
I'll give them the first 10 months to work out any major bugs and release any patches/fixes before I jump on the bandwagon...
That one of the dumbest things i have heard you say outside of talking about your employers.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thanksaj said:
I'll give them the first 10 months to work out any major bugs and release any patches/fixes before I jump on the bandwagon...
That one of the dumbest things i have heard you say outside of talking about your employers.
I don't quite understand your perspective. Why is it a dumb idea to wait for some of the kinks to get worked out before adopting a new OS?
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@thanksaj said:
@Dashrender said:
Why would you wait @thanksaj ?
I'll give them the first 10 months to work out any major bugs and release any patches/fixes before I jump on the bandwagon...
This makes no sense. Basically you are committed to never running the same OS as the rest of the world. In the Linux world with the enterprise distros, as an example, you would always been at least one if not two versions behind. There is no merit to the "wait for bug fixes" manta that small business IT people have started creating. Modern software is not made in such a way that there is any logic to that process. And no Windows OS has this ever applied to. So I'm not sure why you would think that it would apply to Windows 10.
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@nadnerB said:
I don't quite understand your perspective. Why is it a dumb idea to wait for some of the kinks to get worked out before adopting a new OS?
Because it doesn't work that way in the real world. For several reasons:
- Those kinks really don't exist. Not in practice. What OS would this have ever worked for in the past?
- With the faster, rolling releases you'll never have something stable to move to.
- You will just end up being behind.
- If you apply this logic to an OS, do you apply it to patches too? Logically, don't you have to? If not, something is wrong. If so, it explains why it is a bad idea.... you need the latest updates.
- Using old software does not give you more maturity, it does the opposite. Basically a new OS is the fixes to the kinks. So using an old OS means you are sticking with the kinks rather than applying the fixes that have been made.
- Windows OSes have many months or even years of testing before they are releases. Any kinks like AJ is thinking would be caught long before the final release. So not sure what kinks he is looking to have fixed.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
I don't quite understand your perspective. Why is it a dumb idea to wait for some of the kinks to get worked out before adopting a new OS?
Because it doesn't work that way in the real world. For several reasons:
- Those kinks really don't exist. Not in practice. What OS would this have ever worked for in the past?
- With the faster, rolling releases you'll never have something stable to move to.
- You will just end up being behind.
- If you apply this logic to an OS, do you apply it to patches too? Logically, don't you have to? If not, something is wrong. If so, it explains why it is a bad idea.... you need the latest updates.
- Using old software does not give you more maturity, it does the opposite. Basically a new OS is the fixes to the kinks. So using an old OS means you are sticking with the kinks rather than applying the fixes that have been made.
- Windows OSes have many months or even years of testing before they are releases. Any kinks like AJ is thinking would be caught long before the final release. So not sure what kinks he is looking to have fixed.
So, are you saying that release date development rush and all the stupid bugs that it entails is not applicable to Windows? (not being narky, I just want to clarify)
I can see your point and agree with it. I just like to know why people think a certain way. Helps me evaluate why I think things
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Someone ages ago (early or pre-XP era, not sure) told me that they always waited for the for the first major update/service pack. I'm fairly sure that this was for home PC's though. Kind of silly to that today, in light of your explanation.
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@nadnerB said:
So, are you saying that release date development rush and all the stupid bugs that it entails is not applicable to Windows? (not being narky, I just want to clarify)
By and large, yes. For three reasons:
- First that Microsoft develops their OS years in advance. There is no release date rush, really. They have a true alpha -> beta -> release candidate cycle so the software is done and frozen long before release date which effectively makes that rush impossible.
- Second the Windows 10 release is an update, not a new product. It is Windows NT 6.4, the fifth point release in the 6 family. It is itself a patch more than a new product. So waiting on a patch to be patched is weird. You don't wait for Red Hat 6.4 to "age" for ten months, why Windows NT 6.4?
- And lastly because the real rush to get patches and releases out happens with the weekly patch cycle and that can't be avoided. The OS release is the one place that is really protected from the rush.
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@nadnerB said:
Someone ages ago (early or pre-XP era, not sure) told me that they always waited for the for the first major update/service pack. I'm fairly sure that this was for home PC's though. Kind of silly to that today, in light of your explanation.
It was actually silly long ago too. That logic arose from the Windows 2000 release which was a problematic release and SP1 was pretty solid. That one anecdotal situation causes people to extrapolate false cause and effect relationships and everyone has kept repeated the same flawed and baseless concept since that time. People somehow took this one event and made a set of patches arbitrarily named SP1 have magical properties. It's actually a really weird myth, if you really think about it. Why would SP1 be the magic one and not SP0 or SP2, for example? What if SP1 never came (it didn't with Windows 8 and 8.1 at all, for example.)
The "magic of SP1" thing is one of the weirdest religious-like things that I have seen arise in IT over my career and it is extremely common to hear people mention too.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
So, are you saying that release date development rush and all the stupid bugs that it entails is not applicable to Windows? (not being narky, I just want to clarify)
By and large, yes. For three reasons:
- First that Microsoft develops their OS years in advance. There is no release date rush, really. They have a true alpha -> beta -> release candidate cycle so the software is done and frozen long before release date which effectively makes that rush impossible.
- Second the Windows 10 release is an update, not a new product. It is Windows NT 6.4, the fifth point release in the 6 family. It is itself a patch more than a new product. So waiting on a patch to be patched is weird. You don't wait for Red Hat 6.4 to "age" for ten months, why Windows NT 6.4?
- And lastly because the real rush to get patches and releases out happens with the weekly patch cycle and that can't be avoided. The OS release is the one place that is really protected from the rush.
Right, well, I didn't know that about Microsoft's release cycle.
I've have bad experiences with other software vendors and their release date rush stupidity. Granted that most of them, for me have been games, I have also seen business software vendors fall victim to the "All important" and "stupidly set in stone" release date. -
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
Someone ages ago (early or pre-XP era, not sure) told me that they always waited for the for the first major update/service pack. I'm fairly sure that this was for home PC's though. Kind of silly to that today, in light of your explanation.
It was actually silly long ago too. That logic arose from the Windows 2000 release which was a problematic release and SP1 was pretty solid. That one anecdotal situation causes people to extrapolate false cause and effect relationships and everyone has kept repeated the same flawed and baseless concept since that time. People somehow took this one event and made a set of patches arbitrarily named SP1 have magical properties. It's actually a really weird myth, if you really think about it. Why would SP1 be the magic one and not SP0 or SP2, for example? What if SP1 never came (it didn't with Windows 8 and 8.1 at all, for example.)
The "magic of SP1" thing is one of the weirdest religious-like things that I have seen arise in IT over my career and it is extremely common to hear people mention too.
When you actually stop and think about it. it makes no sense to wait for a SP/major update (MU). It's the same updates/patches that are included in the SP/MU, in a concentrated format. Very silly to use that as the basis of waiting.
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Yeah, fair enough.
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@nadnerB said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
So, are you saying that release date development rush and all the stupid bugs that it entails is not applicable to Windows? (not being narky, I just want to clarify)
By and large, yes. For three reasons:
- First that Microsoft develops their OS years in advance. There is no release date rush, really. They have a true alpha -> beta -> release candidate cycle so the software is done and frozen long before release date which effectively makes that rush impossible.
- Second the Windows 10 release is an update, not a new product. It is Windows NT 6.4, the fifth point release in the 6 family. It is itself a patch more than a new product. So waiting on a patch to be patched is weird. You don't wait for Red Hat 6.4 to "age" for ten months, why Windows NT 6.4?
- And lastly because the real rush to get patches and releases out happens with the weekly patch cycle and that can't be avoided. The OS release is the one place that is really protected from the rush.
Right, well, I didn't know that about Microsoft's release cycle.
I've have bad experiences with other software vendors and their release date rush stupidity. Granted that most of them, for me have been games, I have also seen business software vendors fall victim to the "All important" and "stupidly set in stone" release date.Yes, considering the vendor, their release practices, their history, etc. is important. But most enterprise vendors are like Microsoft. You would not wait for updates from vendors like Red Hat, Suse, Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, etc. They have their releases down to a science and they rely on their testing both public and private to be really solid. They have software development reputations on the line.
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@nadnerB said:
When you actually stop and think about it. it makes no sense to wait for a SP/major update (MU). It's the same updates/patches that are included in the SP/MU, in a concentrated format. Very silly to use that as the basis of waiting.
Plus it is arbitrary. Why would the first SP be the good one? The release of the SP is just a marketing decision from Microsoft. And why would we have total faith in the team that decides when to name something SP1 (a really minor decision with likely very little oversight) and not the team that decides when something is rock solid and ready for Microsoft to stake their reputation on it by calling it "production" (which has more oversight than a moon launch!)
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It's a weird bit of having faith in Microsoft in one way (that they will get the SP1 right) but not having faith in them anywhere else. This is compounded by the fact that Microsoft stands behind the OS release but does not themselves state that there is any significance to the SP1 release, that it means anything specific, that it is similar from one generation to another (Windows 2000 SP1 and Windows XP SP1 are both arbitrary and unrelated to each other), has only made an SP1 for some versions of the OS and doesn't make any commitments to ever making them at all until the last second.
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All misgivings and thoughts about when aside, I'll be upgrading. I have 7 Pro at home and I was thinking about re-installing it (it's been a while) BUT... it's OEM. I will probably have to buy a new copy of Windows as there is a planned hardware upgrade this year too.
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@nadnerB said:
All misgivings and thoughts about when aside, I'll be upgrading. I have 7 Pro at home and I was thinking about re-installing it (it's been a while) BUT... it's OEM.
What else would it be? The entire Windows ecosystem on desktops is essentially all OEM. I haven't seen non-OEM Windows in many, many years. Not since the early Windows XP era. And even then it was rare.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What else would it be? The entire Windows ecosystem on desktops is essentially all OEM. I haven't seen non-OEM Windows in many, many years. Not since the early Windows XP era. And even then it was rare.
I had the option to buy non-oem as it was a self built system but I couldn't justify spending twice the amount of money (or possibly more) for the retail version (5 licenses?). We only have one PC at home.
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@nadnerB said:
I had the option to buy non-oem as it was a self built system but I couldn't justify spending twice the amount of money (or possibly more) for the retail version (5 licenses?). We only have one PC at home.
Five licenses? Retail version is just a single install like the OEM. No multiple installation option with it. Never heard of anything like that. OEM is what everyone has these days.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@nadnerB said:
I had the option to buy non-oem as it was a self built system but I couldn't justify spending twice the amount of money (or possibly more) for the retail version (5 licenses?). We only have one PC at home.
Five licenses? Retail version is just a single install like the OEM. No multiple installation option with it. Never heard of anything like that. OEM is what everyone has these days.
Hang on, that was the family pack... it's dusty back here in the memory archive.
I know that there were 3 different versions available for sale here in AU. OEM, Family Pack (short lived) and Retail.
In light of remembering about the family pack, and a bit of research...
(nabbed from Microsoft Answers)
OEM... tied to that motherboard and becomes non transferable, the minute you installed and activated the license.
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OEM versions of Windows 7 are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:-
OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel
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OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on
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OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard
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OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system
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I've never seen the Family Pack. Seems like a weird idea. Who would need that?
