Pizza Selection...Just NO!
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Also, by "heaviest", I'm not sure whether you mean the most vegetarians, or that vegetarians in Dallas weigh more than elsewhere.
ROFL! OMG! SO AWESOME!
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
IT, in general, is one of the heaviest vegetarian populations of any field and Dallas IT especially.
That's another one of your completely made-up "facts", isn't it?
IT has one of the highest number of professionals that come from religious and ethnically vegetarian backgrounds. Dallas has one of the highest populations of those groups in IT. Dallas is specifically a very high, religiously vegetarian area for IT professionals.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
IT, in general, is one of the heaviest vegetarian populations of any field and Dallas IT especially.
That's another one of your completely made-up "facts", isn't it?
IT has one of the highest number of professionals that come from religious and ethnically vegetarian backgrounds. Dallas has one of the highest populations of those groups in IT. Dallas is specifically a very high, religiously vegetarian area for IT professionals.
Do you have statistics or something to back this up? This just doesn't line up with the IT field in general...
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@thanksaj said:
Do you have statistics or something to back this up? This just doesn't line up with the IT field in general...
I've seen stats, yes. And it does line up with IT in general. What makes you think otherwise? What stats have you collected and what IT exposure do you have to make such a claim?
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Dallas (Plano) comes in #2 in the nation for Indian population (this is likely stats from before the huge boom in the Irving Indian population.) NJ and Dallas are well known for the large influence of Indian populations. Most of which are there for the IT sector, Dallas especially as thousands were relocated there from the NYC and NJ areas as part of corporate IT changes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_South_Asian/Indian-American_populations
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@scottalanmiller said:
Dallas (Plano) comes in #2 in the nation for Indian population (this is likely stats from before the huge boom in the Irving Indian population.) NJ and Dallas are well known for the large influence of Indian populations. Most of which are there for the IT sector, Dallas especially as thousands were relocated there from the NYC and NJ areas as part of corporate IT changes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_South_Asian/Indian-American_populations
Plenty of people in those demographics eat meat. Indian people may not eat beef, if they're Hindu, but AFAIK pork, such as bacon, sausage, and ham, aren't an issue. Or turkey. That stat doesn't really mean much...
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@thanksaj said:
Plenty of people in those demographics eat meat. Indian people may not eat beef, if they're Hindu, but AFAIK pork, such as bacon, sausage, and ham, aren't an issue. Or turkey. That stat doesn't really mean much...
Some do. But strict Hindus are normally completely vegetarian. More vegetarian than the normal English usage. No fish. Some even no fungus. But all meat is generally off the table. Cheese and milk are normally okay (the idea that animals can't provide assistance in food in a purely modern, Western thing.)
That stat means a LOT. You have to learn when you have no exposure to the topic and drop it. You haven't worked in any large scale IT shop, you haven't had large exposure to south Asian cultures. On what basis do you make such claims? Indians are one of the largest racial groups in IT, period, this is common knowledge (this is for the US) and extremely common knowledge. This isn't some fringe knowledge that only I have. Anyone with exposure to IT shops of more than a handful of people are acutely aware of this (no, call centers are not IT shops, they are call centers.) And Indian populations, both Hindu and other, are often vegetarian - far moreso than any other population.
And no, Hindu is not the most likely to be vegetarian portion of the Indian population.
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Stats on India proper put vegetarianism close to 40%+ of the total population. That's close to what I've seen having worked heavily in the top two Indian population regions in the US. Part of the issue is defining vegetarian as many studies rule out people who eat eggs, for example, which is a large percentage.
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Ah, I thought you mean't there was something about IT that makes people become vegetarian, or that vegetarians are naturally attracted to a career in IT. Instead you mean that in the US a large number of IT staff are Indian, and a large number of Indians are vegetarians.
Any other vegetarians on here apart from Scott? I used to be when I was younger. I wouldn't eat much meat now except the wife and kids aren't that keen on vegetables. Especially the kids - it would be a nightmare trying to feed them without meat. So we probably have it at least five days a week.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Ah, I thought you mean't there was something about IT that makes people become vegetarian, or that vegetarians are naturally attracted to a career in IT. Instead you mean that in the US a large number of IT staff are Indian, and a large number of Indians are vegetarians.
Correct. In the US, where we have and have had a massive IT staffing shortfall, there is a huge immigration of Indians to fill those roles (and others, but IT heavily.) And that immigration, while everywhere, is specifically focused on NJ (NYC area, but NJ specifically) and Dallas. Those are the hot spots for Indian immigration overall, are hot spots for IT in general and also for the combination of the two (the later being heavily pushed by a forced migration of IT workers from NYC and NJ to Dallas due to market pressures - I was moved in the same migration and most everyone moved with me was Indian.)
IT does attract non-Indian vegetarians slightly more often than many other fields do, but only slightly. Any highly creative or intellectual career is more likely to have vegetarians than blue collar labour is. But the numbers are minor. It's the racial makeup of the field in the US that significantly creates the dietary change (that and the influence of the field from Silicon Valley which is America's vegetarian heartland.)
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Any other vegetarians on here apart from Scott? I used to be when I was younger. I wouldn't eat much meat now except the wife and kids aren't that keen on vegetables. Especially the kids - it would be a nightmare trying to feed them without meat. So we probably have it at least five days a week.
@dominica is. We have two kids, also vegetarians.
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Having worked on a huge team at the world's largest bank (at the time), the Italian manager of the team was excited when they hired me because I wasn't Indian and would eat meat, tipping the scales towards the carnivores. The Indians were laughing pretty hard as I was one of the strictest vegetarians on the team. It hadn't occurred to the manager that I might be a vegetarian too. Our team was over 50% vegetarian, which was pretty dramatic. But it was mirrored throughout the company. Any team we dealt with had at least a sizeable vegetarian representation.
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Fortune 1000s see it far more (and are also the bulk of IT pros in the US) because they are the ones capable of sponsoring H1B visas.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
Ah, I thought you mean't there was something about IT that makes people become vegetarian, or that vegetarians are naturally attracted to a career in IT. Instead you mean that in the US a large number of IT staff are Indian, and a large number of Indians are vegetarians.
Correct. In the US, where we have and have had a massive IT staffing shortfall, there is a huge immigration of Indians to fill those roles (and others, but IT heavily.) And that immigration, while everywhere, is specifically focused on NJ (NYC area, but NJ specifically) and Dallas. Those are the hot spots for Indian immigration overall, are hot spots for IT in general and also for the combination of the two (the later being heavily pushed by a forced migration of IT workers from NYC and NJ to Dallas due to market pressures - I was moved in the same migration and most everyone moved with me was Indian.)
IT does attract non-Indian vegetarians slightly more often than many other fields do, but only slightly. Any highly creative or intellectual career is more likely to have vegetarians than blue collar labour is. But the numbers are minor. It's the racial makeup of the field in the US that significantly creates the dietary change (that and the influence of the field from Silicon Valley which is America's vegetarian heartland.)
With the Indian workers, we still have a massive shortfall, but in terms of skill and not body count. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and skilled Indian people in IT. But I have only met one or two.
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All this talk of food - forget pizza, I would kill for a spicy Indian veg curry right now!
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@thanksaj said:
With the Indian workers, we still have a massive shortfall, but in terms of skill and not body count. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and skilled Indian people in IT. But I have only met one or two.
I would guess that I have worked with over a thousand. Hard to guess when the numbers get large. I've lived right in the middle of the Indian cultural centers in both NJ and Dallas (the areas where Netflix "local recommendations" are all in Hindi!!) I've worked with an awful lot of people in general, so all of my numbers are large.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
All this talk of food - forget pizza, I would kill for a spicy Indian veg curry right now!
I want to say my girlfriend loves Indian food, but I can't say that for sure. I've actually never had it before.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
All this talk of food - forget pizza, I would kill for a spicy Indian veg curry right now!
That's very British of you
The UK often treats curry like the US treats pizza. It's actually difficult to get a quick, cheap, take-away curry here. You can get it nearly anywhere from a "fancy" restaurant, but cost effective take-away, very difficult. -
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksaj said:
With the Indian workers, we still have a massive shortfall, but in terms of skill and not body count. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and skilled Indian people in IT. But I have only met one or two.
I would guess that I have worked with over a thousand. Hard to guess when the numbers get large. I've lived right in the middle of the Indian cultural centers in both NJ and Dallas (the areas where Netflix "local recommendations" are all in Hindi!!) I've worked with an awful lot of people in general, so all of my numbers are large.
The problem with that particular subcontinent is cultural.
They are taught to not think, follow the directions or else. It's deeply engrained in their society, they have a caste system for f [moderated] sake. This results in most of the lower level goons not knowing jack s [moderated] beyond their tiny part of the picture. Improvisation is not their strong suit. We interviewed a few guys who were supposed to be our "peers" over the phone. One put in his resume he was an "Active Directory Architect". He couldn't even name ONE of the FSMO roles.
Then there is the blatenly false thought that they are somehow more educated and are equivalent to Western education. Sure, if they pay attention. But most just buy their way out of it. I can't seem to find it, but there was a article on the WSJ a while back about how the education system in India is hugely corrupted, in that 3/4 of all students pay professors for passing grades. A degree from Calcutta Technical Institute (CalTech) isn't worth even a degree in Underwater Basket Weaving from UC-Davis. What we see in the for-profit sector of our education system pales in comparison against their pay for play system.
Until companies figure out that these guys are not worth even considering, we will be stuck with them. I would take me an Eastern European resource before I consider anything in that subcontinent.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksaj said:
With the Indian workers, we still have a massive shortfall, but in terms of skill and not body count. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and skilled Indian people in IT. But I have only met one or two.
I would guess that I have worked with over a thousand. Hard to guess when the numbers get large. I've lived right in the middle of the Indian cultural centers in both NJ and Dallas (the areas where Netflix "local recommendations" are all in Hindi!!) I've worked with an awful lot of people in general, so all of my numbers are large.
The problem with that particular subcontinent is cultural.
They are taught to not think, follow the directions or else. It's deeply engrained in their society, they have a caste system for f [moderated] sake. This results in most of the lower level goons not knowing jack s [moderated] beyond their tiny part of the picture. Improvisation is not their strong suit. We interviewed a few guys who were supposed to be our "peers" over the phone. One put in his resume he was an "Active Directory Architect". He couldn't even name ONE of the FSMO roles.
Then there is the blatenly false thought that they are somehow more educated and are equivalent to Western education. Sure, if they pay attention. But most just buy their way out of it. I can't seem to find it, but there was a article on the WSJ a while back about how the education system in India is hugely corrupted, in that 3/4 of all students pay professors for passing grades. A degree from Calcutta Technical Institute (CalTech) isn't worth even a degree in Underwater Basket Weaving from UC-Davis. What we see in the for-profit sector of our education system pales in comparison against their pay for play system.
Until companies figure out that these guys are not worth even considering, we will be stuck with them. I would take me an Eastern European resource before I consider anything in that subcontinent.
FTW!
