DIY router build
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Hey hey! Great project!
For a router, though, I think you want separate hardware rather than building a multi-purpose device with routing being one of the features. This is a great chance to get a low cost, low power SBC on an ARM processor that's designed for this. This won't be expensive and will be really cool and interesting and a great chance to practice running a production operating system on a different architecture.
This is something akin to a raspberry pi, except with two (or more) Ethernet ports so that you can use it for physical routing. You don't need much power, it's amazing how little routers do. So the device can be very cheap and needs hardly any RAM. Production routers over have tiny embedded CPUs and less than 1GB of RAM. So even an RP4 is massive overkill for a router under normal conditions.
Then when it is on it uses almost no power, and it is hardware that can't be bypassed.
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This is an example setup from two years ago to give you an idea of what you can do with a low cost embedded SBC...
https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2020/02/24/how-to-build-your-own-openwrt-router-with-an-sbc/
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@Johann Why not use a Qotom box with Intel NIC's, and put pfSense on it?
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For homelabbing and learning you need a home lab. That means you need a "server" where you can put virtual machines so you can learn about many different things.
Your first project should be to build the homelab server. Not the firewall/router.
When your "server" is up and running, you can learn and run different firewalls/routers on your server - such as pfsense, opnsense, vyos, openwrt etc etc.
If you still want a dedicated physical firewall/server at that point, go ahead. But not now. Now you need to use your hard earned cash so you can get as much learning out of it as possible.
PS. I'm writing "server" because you need a PC that will act as a server but not necessarily a server like the ones you'd find in a datacenter.
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I think I should specified that my current router died a few days ago and that's one of the reasons I wanted to start with a DIY router. Because a few people said that I should not tinker on my network edge, I went ahead and bought a ASUS WiFi 6 Router (RT-AX3000) on Amazon. At the same time, others said that a DIY option can be around or a little more than a COTS router, so it's worth it to just go that route and dump the COTS router.
I bought the ASUS router yesterday on Amazon so it hasn't shipped yet and I was thinking if I can figure out my plan for the DIY router, then I could potentially just cancel that order asap. With that said, I'll continue below.
@scottalanmiller - Were you referring to something like this?
https://www.gateworks.com/products/industrial-single-board-computers/imx8-single-board-computers-gateworks-venice/Or if using the Seeedstudio link you shared, then maybe this?
Sample complete SBC build:If not, could you spec out a complete build if you have a moment, please?
Also, regarding purchasing from seeedstudio, I must admit I'm quite nervous since the dropdown box for me only shows "CN warehouse" which means it would ship direct from China. My worries are risk about customer support if I receive a lemon, lack of documentation/user manual, shipping, etc. But if you meant the gateworks link, then it should be ok although the price isn't listed for their product offerings.
@krzykat - I considered a Qotom box, but was nervous about direct shipping from China as indicated above in my response to Sam.
@Pete-S - Are you referring to something like this?
https://metebalci.com/blog/home-lab-server-2022/If so, this may be a bit much for me personally. The cost isn't a big issue even though this is expensive, but rather having to build an entire separate PC tower unit is likely not an option for me currently. My studio is less than 160 sq ft, so space is very limited here. Also, a server like in the link above would very likely consume a ton of wattage and my building only allows a certain amount of total wattage from each studio. This server would eat too much power unfortunately. But I can definitely return to this after I have moved into a new place (or ideally, have purchased an apartment/house). OR if you have a low wattage idea, then, nevermind what I typed above.
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@Johann said in DIY router build:
@Pete-S - Are you referring to something like this?
https://metebalci.com/blog/home-lab-server-2022/
If so, this may be a bit much for me personally. The cost isn't a big issue even though this is expensive, but rather having to build an entire separate PC tower unit is likely not an option for me currently. My studio is less than 160 sq ft, so space is very limited here. Also, a server like in the link above would very likely consume a ton of wattage and my building only allows a certain amount of total wattage from each studio. This server would eat too much power unfortunately. But I can definitely return to this after I have moved into a new place (or ideally, have purchased an apartment/house). OR if you have a low wattage idea, then, nevermind what I typed above.No, something like this:
Any Intel NUC. They're small and all models are low power. You just need to put in enough memory and SSD to run some virtual machines. 32GB RAM will do it. -
@Johann said in DIY router build:
I think I should specified that my current router died a few days ago and that's one of the reasons I wanted to start with a DIY router. Because a few people said that I should not tinker on my network edge, I went ahead and bought a ASUS WiFi 6 Router (RT-AX3000) on Amazon. At the same time, others said that a DIY option can be around or a little more than a COTS router, so it's worth it to just go that route and dump the COTS router.
No, you need a working internet connection first to build anything. Any router would get that job done though.
Pros in general prefer a standard router/firewall with no wifi and then one or several access points to provide wifi. For example Edgerouter ER-X and any access point (if you need wifi).
In your case with that small space I'd probably just buy a $50 wifi router and be done with it. No point in buying a more expensive wifi router - better to buy the pro stuff in that case.
So I'd just cancel the amazon order and order a cheaper wifi router instead or go the pro route.
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I'm with Pete here.
Buy an Edgerouter-x for your primary home firewall/router. Then decide what you want for WiFi - I've been using Unifi APs for nearly a decade with little to no issues.
As for your learning - physical hardware is really mainly good for learning hypervisors, beyond that you could do everything in a VPS provider like Vultr. No upfront fees, no power drain on you at all. I'm not sure what they offer on the networking side, i.e. you setting up your own private network playground where you setup a router on the edge, etc... but the other typical server stuff they can definitely provide like any other VM would.
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@Dashrender said in DIY router build:
As for your learning - physical hardware is really mainly good for learning hypervisors, beyond that you could do everything in a VPS provider like Vultr. No upfront fees, no power drain on you at all. I'm not sure what they offer on the networking side, i.e. you setting up your own private network playground where you setup a router on the edge, etc... but the other typical server stuff they can definitely provide like any other VM would.
While providers such as Vultr would be good for running production I don't think it's ideal for a homelab. You really want to be able to spin up many VMs without the cost immediately running away.
You could potentially sign up for a bare metal server but then it's from $120 per month from Vultr. I know Hetzner (Europe) has among the cheapest bare metal servers and you could probably find something for $50 per month.
Just checked and found something:
But latency might be a killer from the US. -
@Dashrender said in DIY router build:
As for your learning - physical hardware is really mainly good for learning hypervisors, beyond that you could do everything in a VPS provider like Vultr
Well, why use Vultr with the monthly costs when you could learn it ON the hypervisor you are also learning on the bare metal?
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@scottalanmiller said in DIY router build:
@Dashrender said in DIY router build:
As for your learning - physical hardware is really mainly good for learning hypervisors, beyond that you could do everything in a VPS provider like Vultr
Well, why use Vultr with the monthly costs when you could learn it ON the hypervisor you are also learning on the bare metal?
Of course - if you have the hardware, then sure, if you don't...
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@Pete-S said in DIY router build:
No, you need a working internet connection first to build anything.
I have internet connectivity since I can always just connect directly via the modem.
Can you tell me more about the Intel NUC option, please? I'd just need a case, memory and SSD, yes? Any good sample builds that come to mind?
I'm still curious about the SBC option Sam mentioned and would like to fully look into that as well. I'm trying to read up on it now.
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@Johann said in DIY router build:
Can you tell me more about the Intel NUC option, please? I'd just need a case, memory and SSD, yes? Any good sample builds that come to mind?
There is nothing to build. It's often sold as a barebone, meaning you buy whatever memory you need and whatever SSD you want, plug it in and you're good to go. Youtube is your friend for stuff like that.
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I'd rather use a hardware router
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@StuartJordan said in DIY router build:
I'd rather use a hardware router
He's doing it for a lab, not for use.
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@scottalanmiller said in DIY router build:
@StuartJordan said in DIY router build:
I'd rather use a hardware router
He's doing it for a lab, not for use.
Ok fair enough, didn't read the ops post fully.
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@StuartJordan - You were correct as I will be using the router as my main router instead of a traditional COTS router:
https://mangolassi.it/post/549470My apologies that this wasn't clear in the OP.
I'm currently assembling a parts list for a build or two.
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@Johann said in DIY router build:
@StuartJordan - You were correct as I will be using the router as my main router instead of a traditional COTS router:
https://mangolassi.it/post/549470My apologies that this wasn't clear in the OP.
I'm currently assembling a parts list for a build or two.
Always fun building it yourself.
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I'm gonna play devils advocate here, and say it's a complete waste of time to build a hardware lab. If you want to work SMB for 100 employee company, then fine whatever. They want to pay you to monkey around with hardware for a few servers instead of doing Colo or cloud.
Everyone on here giving the advice is passionate about their work and thorough, but unless you want to do IT service work or be one man IT shop, there isn't really any value in this stuff. Get an edge router and buy a cheap hardware device as @Pete-S recommended.
I actually had to check the date a few times on this thread and make sure it wasn't nearly a decade old. Because man this is dated way to learn. You'll find very little of what you want to learn, has to do with hardware or even a specific Colo or cloud. Notice how everyone talked about sever configuration or networking. Neither of those pertain to actual hardware. The implementation you'll be doing in the real world is both hardware and cloud agnostic.
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@IRJ I know what your saying, let the man play around though
