How do you guys handle counter offers?
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I am surprised by the reaction on here. Maybe it's a cultural thing because it is so common and normal in Europe. Certainly over here you can't just fire people, as it is predicted will be the outcome in the OP's case.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I am surprised by the reaction on here. Maybe it's a cultural thing because it is so common and normal in Europe. Certainly over here you can't just fire people, as it is predicted will be the outcome in the OP's case.
That's just one bad outcome. Being in a shop that resents you and doesn't respect you (or what IT does) is the bigger concern. People are way, way over stating the "you'll get fired" card. That's possible, of course, but not super likely. Screwed in the long run is the likely thing. Lack of future raises, less respect, fewer options. In fact, getting fired is probably the better thing in most cases.
Remember what all has to happen for this situation to arise. Just because you can strong arm them once, doesn't mean that you can again. But it is expected that in order to keep advancing, you'll have to. Each time it gets harder as your value to other companies gets to be less and less, and your own company can do a lot to reduce your value to future employers or reduce the chances of you getting hired. Just telling another company that you did this is enough for many to not hire you.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
By "lower the bar" you mean doing the same job but earning 50% more money. Yes, I think a lot of people would take that.
Yes, lots of people would. That's not really here nor there. The average person manages their career really poorly and lets companies run roughshod over them, especially in the IT field where we drastically undervalue ourselves and overvalue the company.
Things that are missing here...
- It's not necessary the same job. In fact, it's incredibly unlikely to remain the same job.
- That it is 50% more than "too little" means basically nothing. It's not 50% more than the alternative today. And it will easily be 50% less over time.
People are short sighted and managers know this. They will try to trick people into short term benefits because they don't see the big picture. The company knows that they can fire you, lower your pay, reduce your benefits, stop future pay raises, lower your title, increase your responsibilities, or just make life suck so that you want to quit anytime that they want to. They aren't trapped with your new pay, but you just burned your bridge on another job.
For them, they take on little risk. For you, you take on a bit, and they know it. They know that your long term earning potential just dropped and that your ability to strong arm them to more raises will be less in the future. Plus they know you will do it so can plan for it and be ready now.
It's easy to hear 50% increase and think it is automatically a good deal. But that's like a sale where you get 50% off. Sounds great, but if the item was overpriced in the first place, it might still be overpriced. We know he was getting screwed on salary in the past. So 50% over screwed doesn't make it the better option. Better than nothing, absolutely. Better than the alternative that he should take? No, doesn't sound good at all. The other job sounds like the absolute clear winner.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
Anyway, it sounds like the OP handed in his notice and his employer is trying to persuade him to change his mind. That's not extortion.
That depends. If you do this and take the persuasion, that's what extortion is. Lots and lots of people take new job offers just to tell their old jobs and see if they can invoke panic to get more money for their existing job. And it often "works", meaning that they get a counter offer and take it. That's not working out agreed value for the future, that's "I'm ready to leave you high and dry right now, today, what will you pay me to keep your business running?" Sure employers will pay a lot under that kind of stress, but they will almost universally resent it. If they weren't willing to pay that without that threat, they will always regret it. Why do you feel people would be happy if that threat is required to get the pay? Imagine if it happened to you... you refuse to pay someone X, so they come up with a way to scare you so you will pay it. Obviously, you'll not be happy even if you agree to pay.
The OP here didn't do this in order to extort them. But if he accepts the counter offer, he might as well have because no one, not his old employer or the new one would know the difference. Intentional extortion or accidental appears the same. And the result would be expected to be the same - both companies would see him differently than they did before. One resents being "used" just to try to get a counter offer, the other resents being negotiated with under threat of walking out immediately.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I am surprised by the reaction on here. Maybe it's a cultural thing because it is so common and normal in Europe. Certainly over here you can't just fire people, as it is predicted will be the outcome in the OP's case.
You can just be fired in most states in the US, but no one is ever worried about that when negotiating because:
- You have a new job lined up
- You are obviously more valuable than what you were making before
- Since you are valuable, your employer needs to squeeze the last few drips out of you to help backfill
There is no upside advantage for an employer just to fire you.
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
There is no upside advantage for an employer just to fire you.
But a lot to phase you out. Not that they will, that's just one of many ways that we expect a relationship to go wrong.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
There is no upside advantage for an employer just to fire you.
But a lot to phase you out. Not that they will, that's just one of many ways that we expect a relationship to go wrong.
Right, but not an immediate risk of discussing an offer.
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
Right, but not an immediate risk of discussing an offer.
Oh right, no. It's like six months or six years down the road. It's a long play, because they can't fire you on the spot due to the extortion. If they were happy to fire you on the spot, then you had zero leverage to extort, obviously.
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Discussion on the benefits of Right to Fire split to another group.
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I was in the middle of typing @scottalanmiller lol
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I was in the middle of typing @scottalanmiller lol
There's just no good way to stop that, lol.
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@IRJ I was able to move it over!
