Solved Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It doesn't make sense to upgrade old stuff to windows 10. It only makes sense to run with supported hardware and software combinations, whatever that may be.
Otherwise you'll just lose money trying to fix old crap that is probably out of warranty and should have been replaced anyhow.Except it's not like Windows 10 doesn't support "old hardware". If it is that old, it's probably a problem otherwise. If it is new enough to be viable running currently, then Windows 10 makes sense. Basically if Win 10 is an issue here at all, it's exposing an already existing issue.
And just testing Windows 10 costs almost no time. If it doesn't work on the hardware, you just move on. They are already having issues with Windows 7, so the idea that Windows 7 "just works" and Windows 10 does not, doesn't apply.
If Windows 10 wasn't supported, that's one thing. But that's a big assumption when they are running an environment that is out of support. So what they are doing today isn't supported, so any logic that rules out Windows 10 would have long ago ruled out what they are doing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It doesn't make sense to upgrade old stuff to windows 10. It only makes sense to run with supported hardware and software combinations, whatever that may be.
Otherwise you'll just lose money trying to fix old crap that is probably out of warranty and should have been replaced anyhow.Except it's not like Windows 10 doesn't support "old hardware". If it is that old, it's probably a problem otherwise. If it is new enough to be viable running currently, then Windows 10 makes sense. Basically if Win 10 is an issue here at all, it's exposing an already existing issue.
And just testing Windows 10 costs almost no time. If it doesn't work on the hardware, you just move on. They are already having issues with Windows 7, so the idea that Windows 7 "just works" and Windows 10 does not, doesn't apply.
If Windows 10 wasn't supported, that's one thing. But that's a big assumption when they are running an environment that is out of support. So what they are doing today isn't supported, so any logic that rules out Windows 10 would have long ago ruled out what they are doing.
No, you have no idea how the software works. You have no idea what drivers they have for the hardware that they run. A lot of things have changed from windows 7 to windows 10.
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It doesn't make sense to upgrade old stuff to windows 10. It only makes sense to run with supported hardware and software combinations, whatever that may be.
Otherwise you'll just lose money trying to fix old crap that is probably out of warranty and should have been replaced anyhow.Except it's not like Windows 10 doesn't support "old hardware". If it is that old, it's probably a problem otherwise. If it is new enough to be viable running currently, then Windows 10 makes sense. Basically if Win 10 is an issue here at all, it's exposing an already existing issue.
And just testing Windows 10 costs almost no time. If it doesn't work on the hardware, you just move on. They are already having issues with Windows 7, so the idea that Windows 7 "just works" and Windows 10 does not, doesn't apply.
If Windows 10 wasn't supported, that's one thing. But that's a big assumption when they are running an environment that is out of support. So what they are doing today isn't supported, so any logic that rules out Windows 10 would have long ago ruled out what they are doing.
No, you have no idea how the software works. You have no idea what drivers they have for the hardware that they run. A lot of things have changed from windows 7 to windows 10.
Yeah, but the software runs on Windows 10, not just Windows 7. Yes, there are things that we don't know, but that goes in both directions.
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But what we do know is that they are contractually obligated to be on Windows 10.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
It doesn't make sense to upgrade old stuff to windows 10. It only makes sense to run with supported hardware and software combinations, whatever that may be.
Otherwise you'll just lose money trying to fix old crap that is probably out of warranty and should have been replaced anyhow.Except it's not like Windows 10 doesn't support "old hardware". If it is that old, it's probably a problem otherwise. If it is new enough to be viable running currently, then Windows 10 makes sense. Basically if Win 10 is an issue here at all, it's exposing an already existing issue.
And just testing Windows 10 costs almost no time. If it doesn't work on the hardware, you just move on. They are already having issues with Windows 7, so the idea that Windows 7 "just works" and Windows 10 does not, doesn't apply.
If Windows 10 wasn't supported, that's one thing. But that's a big assumption when they are running an environment that is out of support. So what they are doing today isn't supported, so any logic that rules out Windows 10 would have long ago ruled out what they are doing.
No, you have no idea how the software works. You have no idea what drivers they have for the hardware that they run. A lot of things have changed from windows 7 to windows 10.
Yeah, but the software runs on Windows 10, not just Windows 7. Yes, there are things that we don't know, but that goes in both directions.
Yes, but we don't know if it's the same version/release of the POS software. We don't know what hardware or other devices are connected to the computer. We don't know what setting are in the other stuff that perhaps need to change when going from win 7 to win 10. It isn't enough that the computer can be upgraded (if it can), it has to work in the ecosystem too.
And it doesn't take five minutes to upgrade either. It's not linux.
And it almost 100% certain that the hardware is out of warranty. It's been a number of years since you could buy a new machine downgraded to windows 7 .
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
But what we do know is that they are contractually obligated to be on Windows 10.
I must have missed that in the thread. How do we know that?
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year. -
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
And it almost 100% certain that the hardware is out of warranty. It's been a number of years since you could buy a new machine downgraded to windows 7 .
Sure, I would say that that is almost a given. But what does the hardware's warranty have to do with it? If warranty is required, it's already missing. If it's not required, it's not an issue.
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
I must have missed that in the thread. How do we know that?
PCI environment for PoS.
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
And it doesn't take five minutes to upgrade either. It's not linux.
Of tech time, if the upgrades goes smoothly, it's only a few minutes. We do it regularly, on old hardware and new. The process might take several hours, but not of labour time.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
Doesn't matter, it's still PCI compliant.
https://www.atmmarketplace.com/blogs/windows-7-end-of-support-how-it-affects-your-pci-compliance-risk-and-security/ -
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
Doesn't matter, it's still PCI compliant.
Is it? PCI states support, and MS calls it "not supported." PCI depends on the vendor defintion of support AFAIK, and if so, MS marks it as out of support.
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This is the software in question: https://www.ncr.com/restaurants/aloha-pos
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
Doesn't matter, it's still PCI compliant.
Is it? PCI states support, and MS calls it "not supported." PCI depends on the vendor defintion of support AFAIK, and if so, MS marks it as out of support.
No, you just said extended support. That's what MS calls it.
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
Doesn't matter, it's still PCI compliant.
Is it? PCI states support, and MS calls it "not supported." PCI depends on the vendor defintion of support AFAIK, and if so, MS marks it as out of support.
No, you just said extended support. That's what MS calls it.
RIght, but they also refer to the other event as "end of support."
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@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Pete-S said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Win 7 is still supported and get security patches until Jan next year.
That's extended support. Actual support ended a few years ago.
Doesn't matter, it's still PCI compliant.
Is it? PCI states support, and MS calls it "not supported." PCI depends on the vendor defintion of support AFAIK, and if so, MS marks it as out of support.
No, you just said extended support. That's what MS calls it.
Sounds like, from the quote in the other link, that patches, not support, is what is required only.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14085/fixed-lifecycle-policy
But there is the MS terms. Mainstream vs Extended. But patches are all that matters, from at least the one portion of the PCI regs.
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SOmething that I never noticed: "Extended Support is not available for consumer, consumer hardware, or multimedia products"
Windows 7 Home and on anything deemed consumer hardware went out of all support years ago. Only Pro versions on "business class hardware" has extended support at all.
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Of important note, modern hardware is not supported by Windows 7. Windows 10 supports old hardware, but Windows 7 doesn't support current. If hardware was to fail, their setup would not have a supported path forward without grabbing old hardware.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
SOmething that I never noticed: "Extended Support is not available for consumer, consumer hardware, or multimedia products"
Windows 7 Home and on anything deemed consumer hardware went out of all support years ago. Only Pro versions on "business class hardware" has extended support at all.
I didn't know that either. As mentioned in another thread we never used home editions on the other hand.
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Of important note, modern hardware is not supported by Windows 7. Windows 10 supports old hardware, but Windows 7 doesn't support current. If hardware was to fail, their setup would not have a supported path forward without grabbing old hardware.
Well, there is actually a lot of old hardware that's not supported by windows 10.
Usually because the manufacturer just decided to not provide drivers anymore and suggest you upgrade the hardware to something newer. The old planned obsolescence routine
