Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Server 2019 is around the corner and who knows after that.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Server 2019 is around the corner and who knows after that.
That's just the "cost of extra features" though, not the cost of Windows.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Microsoft needs to update their benefits listing. That you get Vista Enterprise isn't much to brag about.
I looked, MS doesn't have an obvious page listing the benefits.
The big ones we know... ability to fail over, ability to upgrade. Those we covered. Beyond those, if there are any real benefits, MS is burying them presumably because they are pretty trivial.
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Server 2019 is around the corner and who knows after that.
That's just the "cost of extra features" though, not the cost of Windows.
True, not needed. He'd have to weigh the need he'd need to upgrade.
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Nano Server, not really a benefit here, I'd imagine.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Server 2019 is around the corner and who knows after that.
That's just the "cost of extra features" though, not the cost of Windows.
True, not needed. He'd have to weigh the need he'd need to upgrade.
And you could just wait, it's weeks away. The bigger benefit there would almost certainly be just waiting and getting the latest and greatest right away rather than deploying 2016 in the last days.
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Microsoft needs to update their benefits listing. That you get Vista Enterprise isn't much to brag about.
I looked, MS doesn't have an obvious page listing the benefits.
The big ones we know... ability to fail over, ability to upgrade. Those we covered. Beyond those, if there are any real benefits, MS is burying them presumably because they are pretty trivial.
Real support is a big one in cases the Admin isn't familiar with clustering.
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@dave247 said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
You're looking at around $5k for every 2 VMs you want to run on that cluster in Windows Server Licensing, not to mention the cost of VMWare.
Wait, how did you get $5k? Each license is $883, so for 3 hosts, that is like $2,650 for 2 vm's...
It's roughly $1300 for Server 2016 standard with SA for 8x 2-core packs. So 4-5k.. I rounded up for the dramatic effect.
With SA. But SA is not required here. Might be smart, normally is, but not required, especially if doing the full mobility licensing model.
I assumed SA because why would you not for a cluster?
Why would you if you are full clustering? The only benefit to the SA is the upgrade at that point, not the failover as you've gone over and above that already.
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Server 2019 is around the corner and who knows after that.
That's just the "cost of extra features" though, not the cost of Windows.
True, not needed. He'd have to weigh the need he'd need to upgrade.
And you could just wait, it's weeks away. The bigger benefit there would almost certainly be just waiting and getting the latest and greatest right away rather than deploying 2016 in the last days.
That's what I'd do if possible.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Microsoft needs to update their benefits listing. That you get Vista Enterprise isn't much to brag about.
I looked, MS doesn't have an obvious page listing the benefits.
The big ones we know... ability to fail over, ability to upgrade. Those we covered. Beyond those, if there are any real benefits, MS is burying them presumably because they are pretty trivial.
Real support is a big one in cases the Admin isn't familiar with clustering.
MS doesn't have "real support". That's not a thing. And it's a joke if you actually have to pay for it. (Even been told this by insiders - there is no support, if it is broken, they just ignore you.) They only fix things you could have fixed yourself, and only sometimes.
They have an official process where a support team hands the work to another team to actually get fixes and that team isn't supposed to respond to the support team.
And MS support, even in theory, does not cover VMware clustering, which is what they have here. So beyond useless.
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https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/licensing-programs/faq-software-assurance.aspx
Seems like no benefits at all. Worthless training (if you need that, you aren't ready to deploy anyway; and worthless support that's only there to say you gave them money.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Read the SA benefits list, too lazy to get the link atm.
Microsoft needs to update their benefits listing. That you get Vista Enterprise isn't much to brag about.
I looked, MS doesn't have an obvious page listing the benefits.
The big ones we know... ability to fail over, ability to upgrade. Those we covered. Beyond those, if there are any real benefits, MS is burying them presumably because they are pretty trivial.
Real support is a big one in cases the Admin isn't familiar with clustering.
MS doesn't have "real support". That's not a thing. And it's a joke if you actually have to pay for it. (Even been told this by insiders - there is no support, if it is broken, they just ignore you.) They only fix things you could have fixed yourself, and only sometimes.
They have an official process where a support team hands the work to another team to actually get fixes and that team isn't supposed to respond to the support team.
And MS support, even in theory, does not cover VMware clustering, which is what they have here. So beyond useless.
The top part.
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@obsolesce the part that I just stated is worth exactly zero and is a scam?
Ever met someone who actually got (or needed) MS support? There are two keys here...
- If it is really broken and you need support, you aren't getting any.
- You don't need support if the product works, and while lots of people claim otherwise, MS actually makes pretty solid products and the value to having support available (even if it was real) approaches zero. This is what your IT staff does already.
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Ever met someone who actually got (or needed) MS support? There are two keys here...
If it is really broken and you need support, you aren't getting any.
It appears you have never personally tried. There is a specific support channel for SA holders. It requires your SA VL ID or whatever its called. I don't know where you are getting your info... Perhaps myth or based on the fact nobody you heard of knows about it.
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If you browse the internet, there's clearly hundreds of thousands of issues people have with this stuff that they could had gotten cleared up easily with SA support.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Ever met someone who actually got (or needed) MS support? There are two keys here...
If it is really broken and you need support, you aren't getting any.
It appears you have never personally tried. There is a specific support channel for SA holders. It requires your SA VL ID or whatever its called. I don't know where you are getting your info... Perhaps myth or based on the fact nobody you heard of knows about it.
I got my info from someone on the MS support engineering desk.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/17252/what-is-expected-of-microsoft-server-support
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
If you browse the internet, there's clearly hundreds of thousands of issues people have with this stuff that they could had gotten cleared up easily with SA support.
That's not a valid assumption. It assumes a level of support that isn't proven. It also is really a statement of not being qualified to do their jobs moreso than anything.
You could read the same stories and say "here are people running an OS without the IT staff necessary to do so."
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@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
@scottalanmiller said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Ever met someone who actually got (or needed) MS support? There are two keys here...
If it is really broken and you need support, you aren't getting any.
It appears you have never personally tried. There is a specific support channel for SA holders. It requires your SA VL ID or whatever its called. I don't know where you are getting your info... Perhaps myth or based on the fact nobody you heard of knows about it.
I got my info from someone on the MS support engineering desk.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/17252/what-is-expected-of-microsoft-server-support
Perhaps they changed it after they told you whatever they said. I've seen a different experience. Not arguing, just saying.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
It appears you have never personally tried.
Never needed to. I know how to admin Windows, and Windows is a solid, working product that MS regularly fixes when broken without needing customers to pay extra. I can't fathom a scenario where support would be useful in the real world. It would require the product to be broken in such a way that MS refused to fix it without the support contract and with it were willing to do so (which MS support desk says doesn't happen, it's a scam) and/or me not knowing how to use a product I'm supposed to be the expert on already.
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@obsolesce said in Trying to correctly understand core licensing in a vmware environment:
Perhaps they changed it after they told you whatever they said. I've seen a different experience. Not arguing, just saying.
Please keep the support discussion in the support thread. None of this is relevant to the OP in this one.
