Copying Content from other sources
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
Here's the whole thing: https://pastebin.com/pWmG6J8p
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Also, at the time of the paperwork in question, the T&C that you provided specifically said that the current T&C could be found elsewhere... and the link went to a 404 page. It had been like that and continued to be for some time. So there was no T&C.
Given that the T&C was removed from the community by Tabrez and ownership of the community was given to the community members in 2009, SW doesn't have the authority to publish T&C anyway. There is nothing to prompt anyone to agree to T&C terms since we were relieved of them in 2009. On top of that, that there were none, enforces that none existed or apply.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Why then don't we post a new T&C here on ML and claim that it applies to the SW community?
Because you can't do that on behalf of an entity you don't own. As far as I know, SW owns the SW community.
As far as you know. But it isn't on the website in question, and nothing makes you agree to it to use it or informs you about it. It's a random peer domain with no direct association with the community.
You can't just go to some OTHER website, and find a T&C, and use that. That was my point.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
Either way... it either applies or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then they have no ToS and the whole thing is up in the air.
But it specifies what it applies to.
It can't apply to the community, as it doesn't even claim to. It only applies to subdomains under www, and then only if there is something that informs you of the T&C.
The community was given ownership of itself by SW so T&C cannot exist for it because of Tabrez' deal with the community. SW gave up any rights to having a T&C in 2009 - for the community. They can certainly have it for their corporate page or app, those are completely separate things. And that's the one you produced.
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@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Why then don't we post a new T&C here on ML and claim that it applies to the SW community?
Because you can't do that on behalf of an entity you don't own. As far as I know, SW owns the SW community.
As far as you know. But it isn't on the website in question, and nothing makes you agree to it to use it or informs you about it. It's a random peer domain with no direct association with the community.
You can't just go to some OTHER website, and find a T&C, and use that. That was my point.
When you create an account on SW in order to post content, those are the terms listed that you agree to by creating an account.
THere is no other way around it, and no other place to get any Terms.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Why then don't we post a new T&C here on ML and claim that it applies to the SW community?
Because you can't do that on behalf of an entity you don't own. As far as I know, SW owns the SW community.
As far as you know. But it isn't on the website in question, and nothing makes you agree to it to use it or informs you about it. It's a random peer domain with no direct association with the community.
You can't just go to some OTHER website, and find a T&C, and use that. That was my point.
When you create an account on SW in order to post content, those are the terms listed that you agree to by creating an account.
Sure, maybe NEW members are bound by that. By AFTER I created an account, the T&C were removed and control of the community handed to the community members. So anything agreed to before that was wiped clean. So there is no such agreement in place.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
THere is no other way around it, and no other place to get any Terms.
Correct, and as those terms were removed by SW, it's "term free".
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@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Why then don't we post a new T&C here on ML and claim that it applies to the SW community?
Because you can't do that on behalf of an entity you don't own. As far as I know, SW owns the SW community.
As far as you know. But it isn't on the website in question, and nothing makes you agree to it to use it or informs you about it. It's a random peer domain with no direct association with the community.
You can't just go to some OTHER website, and find a T&C, and use that. That was my point.
When you create an account on SW in order to post content, those are the terms listed that you agree to by creating an account.
Sure, maybe NEW members are bound by that. By AFTER I created an account, the T&C were removed and control of the community handed to the community members. So anything agreed to before that was wiped clean. So there is no such agreement in place.
Okay, so if there are not T&C, what laws/rules apply?
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Is it free for all? Do any copyright laws apply when there are no terms and conditions to agree to?
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The only Terms I can find on SW, allow any and all use of "User Content" however anybody wants.
If those terms do not apply, then what does apply?
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
It says in the top paragraph what the terms apply to.
Why then don't we post a new T&C here on ML and claim that it applies to the SW community?
Because you can't do that on behalf of an entity you don't own. As far as I know, SW owns the SW community.
As far as you know. But it isn't on the website in question, and nothing makes you agree to it to use it or informs you about it. It's a random peer domain with no direct association with the community.
You can't just go to some OTHER website, and find a T&C, and use that. That was my point.
When you create an account on SW in order to post content, those are the terms listed that you agree to by creating an account.
Sure, maybe NEW members are bound by that. By AFTER I created an account, the T&C were removed and control of the community handed to the community members. So anything agreed to before that was wiped clean. So there is no such agreement in place.
Okay, so if there are not T&C, what laws/rules apply?
Just the generic ones.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
Is it free for all? Do any copyright laws apply when there are no terms and conditions to agree to?
Yes, sort of. But it is the copyright of the writer.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
The only Terms I can find on SW, allow any and all use of "User Content" however anybody wants.
If those terms do not apply, then what does apply?
They can't grant rights that didn't already exist. If that permission isn't there by default, then it can't be granted by the terms anyway.
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
The only Terms I can find on SW, allow any and all use of "User Content" however anybody wants.
If those terms do not apply, then what does apply?
Keep in mind, as the terms are somewhere between secret and don't exist (I checked and there were none last week, I had many people verify that it was a 404 page) - even the ones that they make you accept are purely for people who create accounts and agree to them (so no one before 2010 for sure, is affected, and no one that is anonymous.) So the use of the content is governed only by the generic laws for anyone not logged in at the time.
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If nothing else applies, then it seems at least "Fair Use" would: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
If nothing else applies, then it seems at least "Fair Use" would: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
Yes, Fair Use would definitely apply.
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I don't believe that Fair Use can be waived, by the definition of the doctrine.
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Here's some good additional info... the content may not even be eligible for copyright in the first place:
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/
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@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
Here's some good additional info... the content may not even be eligible for copyright in the first place:
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/
Yes, that's why we had mentioned questions, answers, and facts. Those things generally aren't eligible for copyright in the first place. It depends, if someone posts an article, a story, or something of that nature it is normally covered. But if someone is asking a question or answering a question or just providing supporting evidence, it's not copyrightable in the first place.
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@scottalanmiller said in Copying Content from other sources:
@tim_g said in Copying Content from other sources:
Here's some good additional info... the content may not even be eligible for copyright in the first place:
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/
Yes, that's why we had mentioned questions, answers, and facts. Those things generally aren't eligible for copyright in the first place. It depends, if someone posts an article, a story, or something of that nature it is normally covered. But if someone is asking a question or answering a question or just providing supporting evidence, it's not copyrightable in the first place.
I don't recall anyone posting any copyrighted material in a SW post, then someone copying it to here. Even if that was ever the case, still, it'd fall under "Fair use".
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Maybe the question is not if we are allowed to but if we should do it.
