Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!
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@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
really? give me a short list please.
Cancer: https://www.progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/alcohol
Liver disease
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
I'm THRILLED to be alive and have those things rather than dead and not. THRILLED.
Heart disease I don't care about at ALL if it doesn't kill me.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
really? give me a short list please.
Cancer: https://www.progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/alcohol
Liver disease
And if they don't kill be, bring 'em on, I say.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
really? give me a short list please.
Cancer: https://www.progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/alcohol
Liver disease
And if they don't kill be, bring 'em on, I say.
If you get them, they probably will... then you'll be part of a statistic that says alcohol killed you.
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I'd rather not take the risk of drinking alcohol, and use other methods to increase my lifespan, instead of alcohol.
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Nothing says alcohol is the only way to increase your lifespan.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Nothing says alcohol is the only way to increase your lifespan.
No, but things DO say that avoiding it shortens your lifespan. You can do multiple things to lengthen, and multiple things to shorten.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
Are you kidding me? That is not at all want I said.
I'd rather increase my lifespan and better my health in other ways, without taking the risks associated with alcohol.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
really? give me a short list please.
Cancer: https://www.progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/alcohol
Liver disease
And if they don't kill be, bring 'em on, I say.
If you get them, they probably will... then you'll be part of a statistic that says alcohol killed you.
See, this is a misunderstanding of risk. This is what we talk about with things like RAID or IPODs all of the time. Put this into an IT context. What you are saying is the "contrived scenario" risk mistake where someone says "yeah, but what IF I lose a second drive, my array will fail" but they forget to look at the overall risk and get stuck looking at a "what if". They forget that the chances that that "what if" will happen have to be taken into account.
What we KNOW is that alcohol prolongs your life. If it ALSO is known that it gives you all of these diseases, then we also KNOW that that getting those diseases don't matter (beyond the inconvenience or pain of them) because OVERALL your life got longer, not shorter. So even if they do kill you, they don't kill you faster than you would have died not through avoiding alcohol.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
Are you kidding me? That is not at all want I said.
I'd rather increase my lifespan and better my health in other ways, without taking the risks associated with alcohol.
Yes, but you can't. I'd rather life forever and not have to ever get sick. But that's not an option. I'd rather never have to eat healthy, never exercise... but you do.
I'd rather life a longer and healthier life without taking the even greater risks of avoiding alcohol.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I'd rather increase my lifespan and better my health in other ways, without taking the risks associated with alcohol.
This is the underlying problem... you are prioritizing the risks of alcohol over the overall risks. Your desire to avoid alcohol is greater than your desire to be healthy. You desire to be healthy, but not as much as you desire to not drink.
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Not that it is a "problem", if you really feel avoiding alcohol is better for you than improving your health / life expectancy, then that is purely your right to prioritize in that way. But don't expect anyone to agree or understand or that stating that alcohol is "bad" in any way is acceptable given the normal human understanding of good and bad in terms of health and life.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
Are you kidding me? That is not at all want I said.
Go back and read what was quoted, it is exactly what you said. Dash asked what things you'd prefer to be dead than to have, you said "everything".
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
Are you kidding me? That is not at all want I said.
Go back and read what was quoted, it is exactly what you said. Dash asked what things you'd prefer to be dead than to have, you said "everything".
No, that was addressed.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I'd rather increase my lifespan and better my health in other ways, without taking the risks associated with alcohol.
This is the underlying problem... you are prioritizing the risks of alcohol over the overall risks. Your desire to avoid alcohol is greater than your desire to be healthy. You desire to be healthy, but not as much as you desire to not drink.
My desire is to be healthy and to live long, while not developing cancer or disease caused by alcohol, while using other better means to long life and good health from sources better than alcohol.
Stop saying stuff like you are, it's really twisting what I say.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@dashrender said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
Every indicator? No, every indicator of being healthy means that you in fact have every good-health indicator... such as correct blood pressure, weight, blood sugar levels, etc etc...
Who cares about any of these factors if you get to live longer? These aren't actually health factors. These are proxy indicators. People with high blood pressure TEND to be less healthy. People with bad sugar levels TEND to be less healthy.
But people who drink alcohol TEND to be healthier.
Just as high blood pressure is an indicator of bad health, so is alcohol abstinence an indicator of bad health.
health
helTH/
noun
noun: healththe state of being free from illness or injury.Right and high blood pressure and sugar are NOT illness or injury. But death is the ultimate injury.
Alright, but still typically associated with or lead to heart disease and diabetes.
And? What aliment are you trying to avoid that moderate drinking will likely cause you to have while also granting you a longer life?
All risks associated with drinking it.
See, this sounds crazy. You'd really rather be dead than have those trivial illnesses? That's literally crazy. This indicates a serious self-preservation malfunction. I would, and I mean this honestly, see a psychiatrist about this if you actually feel that life is of so little value, but minor aches and pains are so terrible. This indicates that you should see someone professionally to discuss this. While it might be nothing, this is likely an indicator of something. I'm not a healthy professional, but I'd take that as a sign that seeing one is really important. I'd say that that balance of priorities being that far out of kilter itself indicates a serious health issue.
Are you kidding me? That is not at all want I said.
Go back and read what was quoted, it is exactly what you said. Dash asked what things you'd prefer to be dead than to have, you said "everything".
No, that was addressed.
I don't understand what you mean.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I'd rather increase my lifespan and better my health in other ways, without taking the risks associated with alcohol.
This is the underlying problem... you are prioritizing the risks of alcohol over the overall risks. Your desire to avoid alcohol is greater than your desire to be healthy. You desire to be healthy, but not as much as you desire to not drink.
My desire is to be healthy and to live long, while not developing cancer or disease caused by alcohol, while using other better means to long life and good health from sources better than alcohol.
Stop saying stuff like you are, it's really twisting what I say.
I'm NOT twisting what you say. You literally just repeated what I said that you said and called it twisting when I stated it. But you literally stated it AGAIN. Read what you just wrote carefully.
You want to live long and healthy... of course. If there is a checkbox for live long, you'll check it. If there is one for live healthy, you'll check it. You don't WANT to be sick or dead, no one is claiming you do.
But you then follow that with a caveat.... "while not developing cancer or disease caused by alcohol". This is key because over and over again you state how this is so important to you, that while health and longevity matter, this matters more. And you make a point that it is not cancer or illness that you are worried about, but only or specifically when alcohol is potentially the source.
You are clear that overall health and overall longevity are not the top priority, A priority, but not the top one. The one that comes above overall healthy and longevity, is that alcohol not cause any detriments. Literally, each time you say it, you mention this.
For the rest of us, we care about health and longevity and if we do get sick, we never care about why, only that are overall healthy and longevity is maximized - we don't have caveats where we prioritize the source of what unhealthy bits we end up with.
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Example... if I'm going to get cancer, I could care less HOW I got it.
As an IT pro, it's not important HOW I reduce my risk, only what the resulting risk is.
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Here is what we know.... moderate alcohol provides better overall health and longevity versus no alcohol.
Any desire, therefore, to avoid alcohol comes at the expensive of maximizing health. You cannot avoid alcohol with the goal of being healthy, you only avoid it in spite of the desire to be maximally healthy. You can do lots of other healthy things to try to mitigate the damage done by avoiding it, and with enough effort you can certainly do that, but you could do those things AND have proper alcohol for even better benefits.
So avoiding alcohol always comes at a health cost, even if you do "other things" to make it up.
