VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?
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So I have been talking to several MSP's about using my platform, white labeled for multi-tenants in an MSP channel for a couple days. I have talked to my telecom lawyer, they have talked to lawyers, and its really getting depressing.
I am looking at selling just the platform to them, and they would bring Twilio, VoIP.ms etc and control their numbers, bill theirs customers.
What is totally frustrating is the lack of clarity on the matter.
Flowroute and Twilio will change you taxes, except for E-911 state excise taxes.
VoIP.ms doesnt even charge taxes.
There's the issue of remitting the proper taxes where the company is paying for minutes directly. Then there is the bigger issue of whether a Hosted PBX provider has to file T-499 and pay as an I-VOIP provider, even though they are not a CLEC.
I know mostly there are IT guys here, and the Service Providers generally have the customer start a VOIP account for minutes. Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on the FCC's radar and get in a lot of trouble.
Yet I believe almost every 3cx and FreePBX reseller out there isn't doing anything more than charging state sales tax.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on
Interesting. I wonder how VOIP.ms, Twilio, etc get DIDs in specific zones without paying taxes on those?
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Yet I believe almost every 3cx and FreePBX reseller out there isn't doing anything more than charging state sales tax.
That's because telecom taxes don't apply to IT service companies. FreePBX hosts aren't selling telephony, they are selling servers. It's all IT if you don't sell the PSTN gateway service itself.
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@dashrender said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on
Interesting. I wonder how VOIP.ms, Twilio, etc get DIDs in specific zones without paying taxes on those?
VoiP.ms in Monserrat (hence the .ms) and let their status expire years ago. So they actually could be shut off without notice, but apparently they feel confident to proceed. But even with Twilio paid by a customer directly they aren't getting charged e911 or excise taxes.
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@dashrender said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on
Interesting. I wonder how VOIP.ms, Twilio, etc get DIDs in specific zones without paying taxes on those?
I don't know, I have already been setup for years to charge and the many bullshit funds and excise taxes that are required by each state. My guess is that it just goes under the radar and the FCC doesn't care.
In the MSP world I'm taking business from a guy right now that's spread a lot of FUD about tax remission. He has a platform to remit taxes but my lawyer looked it over and said he is charging the wrong items.
One guy has 10 seats, $259, and $179 in taxes. While I'm sure he's a huckster, as other guys are realizing, there is still a concern of doing it right.
As of explored all the usual VoIP providers I've found a lot of disclaimers, even with twilio.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@dashrender said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on
Interesting. I wonder how VOIP.ms, Twilio, etc get DIDs in specific zones without paying taxes on those?
VoiP.ms in Monserrat (hence the .ms) and let their status expire years ago. So they actually could be shut off without notice, but apparently they feel confident to proceed. But even with Twilio paid by a customer directly they aren't getting charged e911 or excise taxes.
You sure that they are based there? They do have US offices, so have to be legal to do business in the US at least.
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I thought Voip.ms was a Canadian company with offices in the US as well.
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@scottalanmiller said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@dashrender said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Curious to get some feedback on what, if anything, you are doing. One lawyer told a guy I was talking to that he's gonna get on
Interesting. I wonder how VOIP.ms, Twilio, etc get DIDs in specific zones without paying taxes on those?
VoiP.ms in Monserrat (hence the .ms) and let their status expire years ago. So they actually could be shut off without notice, but apparently they feel confident to proceed. But even with Twilio paid by a customer directly they aren't getting charged e911 or excise taxes.
You sure that they are based there? They do have US offices, so have to be legal to do business in the US at least.
Yup, I think most of them even speak french.
Address is on their website...
https://voip.ms/company/contact
It's discussed a lot on dsl reports, whatever status that let expire a few years back.
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@brianlittlejohn said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
I thought Voip.ms was a Canadian company with offices in the US as well.
Just servers, and the founder posts a lot to tell people they have to figure out how to pay US taxes themselves.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@brianlittlejohn said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
I thought Voip.ms was a Canadian company with offices in the US as well.
Just servers, and the founder posts a lot to tell people they have to figure out how to pay US taxes themselves.
Offices in the US, CA and MX.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
One guy has 10 seats, $259, and $179 in taxes.
Percentage wise, that's what Nextiva charges.
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@mike-davis said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
One guy has 10 seats, $259, and $179 in taxes.
Percentage wise, that's what Nextiva charges.
I remember you mentioning that...
I was gonna ask you if you had to time to strike out your personal info and send a screen shot of the actual charges and recovery fees etc.
I know when we used to sell sip trunks it was way more than hosted pbx.
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https://www.puc.texas.gov/consumer/phone/Service.aspx
An excerpt read...
The biggest advantage of VoIP service over traditional phone service is price, if you already have a broadband connection such as digital cable or DSL. Additionally, because VoIP is a largely unregulated "information service," VoIP providers currently do not have to pay connection fees to transport long distance calls or other fees that get tacked on to traditional phone service bills, making VoIP service cheaper by comparison
I wander if this is a shill tax/fee industry where the guys at the top are just pocketing the fees. Some PBX players have real coppoer in the ground at interconnects, which does cost more and more each year. Maybe resulting in bills like @Mike-Davis has.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
https://www.puc.texas.gov/consumer/phone/Service.aspx
An excerpt read...
The biggest advantage of VoIP service over traditional phone service is price, if you already have a broadband connection such as digital cable or DSL. Additionally, because VoIP is a largely unregulated "information service," VoIP providers currently do not have to pay connection fees to transport long distance calls or other fees that get tacked on to traditional phone service bills, making VoIP service cheaper by comparison
I wander if this is a shill tax/fee industry where the guys at the top are just pocketing the fees. Some PBX players have real coppoer in the ground at interconnects, which does cost more and more each year. Maybe resulting in bills like @Mike-Davis has.
Keep in mind that VoIP applies to things that don't touch the PSTN, too.
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So like using Google Hangouts, that's VoIP. And it never touches the PSTN. And it is completely tax free. A VoIP call that hits the PSTN stops being a VoIP call, so gets taxed when it becomes part of the PSTN.
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Right, and yet we've never got a bill for using the Hangouts feature of calling a land line. So either Google pays the tax directly (likely) or, actually thats whats going on.
The big issue I am running into is I have found good customer base for selling just the voice platform, which is really what I want. However, they want to bring theyre trunks and bill the customer direct (which is fine) but another guy who I am taking some business from is giving a lot of pause over taxes.
Ironically, his own platform uses suretax I believe and charges huge fees that could easily be bypassed.
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Taxes, is exactly why I do not do anything more than help clients sign up for their own service.
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Right, and yet we've never got a bill for using the Hangouts feature of calling a land line.
I had no idea that that was a feature.
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@scottalanmiller said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Right, and yet we've never got a bill for using the Hangouts feature of calling a land line.
I had no idea that that was a feature.
Just start a new chat, type a 10 digit number as the contact, hit send. The party getting the call sees "unkown"
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@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@scottalanmiller said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
@bigbear said in VoIP Taxes - Are you paying them?:
Right, and yet we've never got a bill for using the Hangouts feature of calling a land line.
I had no idea that that was a feature.
Just start a new chat, type a 10 digit number as the contact, hit send. The party getting the call sees "unkown"
Interesting. I had no idea.
