Mobile Payments
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I used ISIS several years ago before they changed the name of that mobile payment platform.
I was one of the first to ever use it at the McD's around here - the cashier was kinda freaked out by it..
As mentioned due to the hassle of pulling out a phone, not any harder/easier than pulling out a CC from wallet - so no clue if mobile payments are getting any real traction.
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@jaredbusch said in Mobile Payments:
@zachary715 said in Mobile Payments:
@jaredbusch said in Mobile Payments:
@zachary715 said in Mobile Payments:
Mobile payments aren't a new thing. They've been around a few years and it seems like now everyone has their own mobile payment platform. I think the three strongest players in this game are Apply Pay, Samsung Pay, and Android Pay. There's also Paypal and the like, but I'm talking mostly about storing credit card info in your phone and paying through an NFC terminal.
I've always wanted to try these (Android Pay) but for some reason have been reluctant. The more I've read lately, it seems that in reality these can be more secure than regular credit card payments using the new chip reader.
My question to you all is have you used before or do you currently use some form of mobile payment solution? If so, which one and why? What has been your experiences? What needs to be improved? Do you find that mobile payments are more secure than regular credit card transaction at a chip or swipe terminal?
Do not forget that Walmart is setting up their own thing. That will be huge also.
How will it be huge? Will it only be usable at Wal-Mart stores? What benefits might it bring from using their mobile payment platform outside of a Wal-Mart store?
Do you realize how many people shop in walmart every day?
It never has to work outside of Walmart to be huge.
@JaredBusch is right. Take this into consideration:
Total amount of money spent at Wal-Mart every hour of every day $36,750,000 (source:http://www.statisticbrain.com/wal-mart-company-statistics/)That is on the hour. That is roughly 880 Million in one day. Walmart wouldn't need much to meet or exceed Apple in money or transactions. Especially if Wal-Mart opens it up to other smaller retailers. Gross sales in the App Store was $30 Billion in 2016 (Source:https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2017/01/06/apples-app-store-generating-meaningful-revenue/#4a4147531eb6). Apple doesn't disclose details about Apple pay transaction, at least I couldn't find it quickly. However, it is plain to see Wal-Mart could easily become the dominant player in the market quickly.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
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I really love the idea of mobile payments, assuming they do it right, and each transaction is done via a secure onetime code generated on the fly. As already mentioned in this thread, this would make hacking Target or anyone useless from a stolen payment POV.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
I felt the same way about PP.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
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@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
Banks don't make devices, it wasn't the banks place to do it, really. It's too costly for a bank to do, not worth it to them.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
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Basically you just asked me if I trust that Google, a giant corporation with billions and billions of dollars to lose, will not engage in reckless, insane behaviour to intentionally commit a felony by attempting to steal credit card data and identities? Think that through. Is there any large, well known company that has ever engaged in behaviour like that? You can't get big, have so much to lose, and do things so petty and dangerous.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
Beyond banking.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
I think that you are using trust in a very weird way here. Much like the discussions where we "trust" a salesman. Most people use "trust their salesman" to mean that they expect him to be unethical and help them out against his values. I mean "trust my salesman" meaning that I trust him to be ethical and uphold his social agreement.
Trust is a very loose term, much like freedom. I trust Google will not lie to me and use their technology to commit really significant crimes against me to steal banking data that they are entrusted to protect. I also trust them to use their data collection technologies as intended to collect as much info on me as they can. So the trust is universal, but you are stating it in a way that makes me think you mean trust in the incorrect "doing things that I randomly want them to do" way.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
Beyond banking.
But it is a banking trust, there is no context beyond that. The question has no meaning beyond banking.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
Banks don't make devices, it wasn't the banks place to do it, really. It's too costly for a bank to do, not worth it to them.
What? The bank could make an app.
Basically what you've just said is, if you don't make a phone (or a device of some type), don't both, not your place. Not sure I agree, but willing to hear more why you think this.
