IS BASIC programming still in vogue?



  • All of us over 30 started on BASIC, almost certainly, and pretty much anyone in the SMB realm who lived through the late 1990s did VB at some point and nearly anyone who went to college did because it is the fallback language that colleges can easily teach by showing the GUI and not teaching any programming so that non-programming professors can fake their way through the classes.... so the exposure rate is high. But as C# is free today, no need for VB.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    All of us over 30 started on BASIC, almost certainly, and pretty much anyone in the SMB realm who lived through the late 1990s did VB at some point and nearly anyone who went to college did because it is the fallback language that colleges can easily teach by showing the GUI and not teaching any programming so that non-programming professors can fake their way through the classes.... so the exposure rate is high. But as C# is free today, no need for VB.

    Yes, indeed.



  • @azedas101 said:

    I was once attending classes on the above. Please is the language still in vogue?

    If the real question is, "What programming language to learn?" Then try Python.

    BASIC was long ago and now far away.



  • It's definitely in vogue in a retro, don't you remember when you were a kid in the 80's and used to copy games from a book into your Atari,(I hope my kids have better things to do) kind of way. Paul Bunn was one of the authors I remember.
    Probably not in vogue in a , I'm doing classes in BASIC now, thinking it's relevant, kind of way.



  • @ken said:

    It's definitely in vogue in a retro, don't you remember when you were a kid in the 80's and used to copy games from a book into your Atari,(I hope my kids have better things to do) kind of way. Paul Bunn was one of the authors I remember.
    Probably not in vogue in a , I'm doing classes in BASIC now, thinking it's relevant, kind of way.

    Is anyone actually doing it in a retro kind of way?



  • Something that I've just noticed is that Microsoft's newest code editor, VS Code, completely skips Visual Basic support. While MS continues to support VB on their older platforms, they've totally abandoned it on their newer and cross platform toolsets. I think that this is pretty telling as to what we've known for decades, that VB is legacy support and MS wants it to go away.



  • @scottalanmiller MS propose c# as a Platform Language, c++ as low level Language and now is in the web vagon with a ton of typescript. VB form the most remains as an app Scripting Language.
    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.



  • @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.

    Not at all. VS Code isn't for web at all. It's not focused on web tech, languages, or anything else. Most modern languages use web as a main output, but VS Code has nothing making it lean towards web any more than normal VS does.



  • You might make an argument that VS non-Code is focused on legacy fat apps... but that VS is bad for web, doesn't make VS Code for web, it's just not encumbered by the association with legacy apps.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    Even in the ASP era, Jscript was the more serious choice than VBScript. So VB was already waning around 1998.

    Once .NET arrived it came with C# and that was the final nail in the coffin of VB being taken seriously. That it is even still supported today is a wonder.

    There are apparently VB scripts where I am now.



  • @eddiejennings said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    Even in the ASP era, Jscript was the more serious choice than VBScript. So VB was already waning around 1998.

    Once .NET arrived it came with C# and that was the final nail in the coffin of VB being taken seriously. That it is even still supported today is a wonder.

    There are apparently VB scripts where I am now.

    VBScript is not VB at all. While the names sound similar, they are extremely differently languages. VBScript, while a sad scripting language, is still in use and will be for a very long time, as is VBA, a derivative of VBScript used for MS Office automation.

    VB and its derivative, VB.NET are horrible compiled languages that have no purpose and have not for a very, very long time. VBScript might be a terrible language, but it is the primary language remaining for many things that it is used for. VB is dead, and VB.NET has been a second class citizen for nearly two decades in the places where it still exists.



  • It seems like Python and JavaScript programming and using those to interact with APIs to create web based applications is the way things are going.



  • I think that will be my next hobby. I'm tired of waiting and relying on others for nice IT html5 web apps.

    At least, that's how I feel anyways.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @eddiejennings said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    Even in the ASP era, Jscript was the more serious choice than VBScript. So VB was already waning around 1998.

    Once .NET arrived it came with C# and that was the final nail in the coffin of VB being taken seriously. That it is even still supported today is a wonder.

    There are apparently VB scripts where I am now.

    VBScript is not VB at all. While the names sound similar, they are extremely differently languages. VBScript, while a sad scripting language, is still in use and will be for a very long time, as is VBA, a derivative of VBScript used for MS Office automation.

    VB and its derivative, VB.NET are horrible compiled languages that have no purpose and have not for a very, very long time. VBScript might be a terrible language, but it is the primary language remaining for many things that it is used for. VB is dead, and VB.NET has been a second class citizen for nearly two decades in the places where it still exists.

    I stand corrected 😃



  • I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @eddiejennings said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    Even in the ASP era, Jscript was the more serious choice than VBScript. So VB was already waning around 1998.

    Once .NET arrived it came with C# and that was the final nail in the coffin of VB being taken seriously. That it is even still supported today is a wonder.

    There are apparently VB scripts where I am now.

    VBScript is not VB at all. While the names sound similar, they are extremely differently languages. VBScript, while a sad scripting language, is still in use and will be for a very long time, as is VBA, a derivative of VBScript used for MS Office automation.

    VB and its derivative, VB.NET are horrible compiled languages that have no purpose and have not for a very, very long time. VBScript might be a terrible language, but it is the primary language remaining for many things that it is used for. VB is dead, and VB.NET has been a second class citizen for nearly two decades in the places where it still exists.

    You can't say that VB.NET is derived from VB. It has a somehow similar syntax, but that's it. VB.NET is a fully featured CLR programming language in the .NET ecosystem. VB, on the other hand, is a mess.

    I do not use VB.NET, it's a PITA to read and write, but it's a modern language anyway.



  • @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    All of us over 30 started on BASIC, almost certainly, and pretty much anyone in the SMB realm who lived through the late 1990s did VB at some point and nearly anyone who went to college did because it is the fallback language that colleges can easily teach by showing the GUI and not teaching any programming so that non-programming professors can fake their way through the classes.... so the exposure rate is high. But as C# is free today, no need for VB.

    Actually, I started with BASIC and Pascal at the same time. Learned COBOL and FORTRAN a few months later 😉

    Went to ANSI C and Assembler soon after. Today, it's mostly C#, C, a bit Assembler and a good amount of scripting languages.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.

    Not at all. VS Code isn't for web at all. It's not focused on web tech, languages, or anything else. Most modern languages use web as a main output, but VS Code has nothing making it lean towards web any more than normal VS does.

    What I mean is that even if MS "sells" VSC for any language it is quite a PITA to develop stuff in C++/C/C# in it wrt VS.
    I prefer Atom or VSC when developing in python, but when I've to code c++ I move to other stuff.
    On MS this stuff is VS.



  • @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.

    Not at all. VS Code isn't for web at all. It's not focused on web tech, languages, or anything else. Most modern languages use web as a main output, but VS Code has nothing making it lean towards web any more than normal VS does.

    What I mean is that even if MS "sells" VSC for any language it is quite a PITA to develop stuff in C++/C/C# in it wrt VS.
    I prefer Atom or VSC when developing in python, but when I've to code c++ I move to other stuff.
    On MS this stuff is VS.

    What's wrong with C# on VSC? I don't do much any more, but I prefer VSC for that over legacy VS still.



  • @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

    Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code



  • @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

    Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

    That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.

    Not at all. VS Code isn't for web at all. It's not focused on web tech, languages, or anything else. Most modern languages use web as a main output, but VS Code has nothing making it lean towards web any more than normal VS does.

    What I mean is that even if MS "sells" VSC for any language it is quite a PITA to develop stuff in C++/C/C# in it wrt VS.
    I prefer Atom or VSC when developing in python, but when I've to code c++ I move to other stuff.
    On MS this stuff is VS.

    What's wrong with C# on VSC? I don't do much any more, but I prefer VSC for that over legacy VS still.

    VSC is an editor. Basically something like Atom or Sublime. VS is a development environment featuring an integrated compiler and debugger and hundreds of tools and functions.



  • @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @matteo-nunziati said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    VS Code is basically for web languages. if you want serious compiled languages development on MS you need Visual Studio.

    Not at all. VS Code isn't for web at all. It's not focused on web tech, languages, or anything else. Most modern languages use web as a main output, but VS Code has nothing making it lean towards web any more than normal VS does.

    What I mean is that even if MS "sells" VSC for any language it is quite a PITA to develop stuff in C++/C/C# in it wrt VS.
    I prefer Atom or VSC when developing in python, but when I've to code c++ I move to other stuff.
    On MS this stuff is VS.

    What's wrong with C# on VSC? I don't do much any more, but I prefer VSC for that over legacy VS still.

    VSC is an editor. Basically something like Atom or Sublime. VS is a development environment featuring an integrated compiler and debugger and hundreds of tools and functions.

    Yeah... what we call "bloat".



  • That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.



  • I've been in VSC continuously the last two days, been coding all weekend 🙂



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.

    Scripts and structured languages like HTML, yes. I am in VSC all the time myself.

    But compiled code requires a development environment that you can do things like debugging in.

    That is not bloat. I need to be able to step the the executing application line by line at times to find that weird bug.

    For Windows, this is VS. I have no idea what it would be for the Linux ecosystem more than make to compile.



  • @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

    Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

    That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.

    2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.



  • @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

    Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

    That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.

    2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.

    I just took a client that has an entire LoB app in VB6. The question will be if they accept my cost estimate to update it.

    Going to triage their need to update the DB server (Server 2003 running SQL 2005), but nothing else will be done unless they agree to update.

    So potentially not a client for long 😛



  • @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    @flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:

    I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...

    You could talk to a tree for the same effect 😉 Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programming

    Not starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code

    That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.

    2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.

    Wiat, you are REALLY doing VB6 with a book from 1998? I thought that you were kidding about that, lol. I figured you just were working on late VB.NET code and being silly with the VB6 thing. Damn.