Solved Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Hi all,
This is my future plan to setup Windows Server Redundancy ( DC+File Server).
Part 1: Physical Server
Currently our DC + File Server is running on one Physical Server. Is there any option at all for physical server replication ? with other server, so that we can make second server as primary manually or automatically in case of main server failure ?
Part 2: Virtual Server
I believe, physical server replication is not available and VM Replica is the best option.
Now I am trying to understand Hyper V Free Replica VS Veeam Replica Paid:
1. Hyper V Replica : I know it's poor man's DC. So there should some limitations or hard work as it comes for free. For me, redundancy matters and ok with Veeam pricing.
2. Hyper V Failover Cluster : As it will require two virtual servers (of course best option to be on different servers), so two physical servers and SAN/NAS, which is out of budget (not an option for me) and I know don't understand how it's redundant incase of SAN failure ?
3. Veeam B&R Replica Standard : I have chosen standard (perpetual) , as it's ok for pricing and features. Here my confusion is, as it's saying Backup and Replication, for the Backup if we set backup target to NAS, it's fine,
a) But for replication we should set target to Physical Server ? which is with Hyper-V, so that we can Fire UP to make it as primary server in case of Actual Server failure, right ? I believe everything will be up and runs normally within some 30 minutes with around 1 hour data loss (let's say) ?
b) Once the main (original) server is okay and ready to run again (from failure), how about changed/updated data with secondary server ?( which was acting as primary server), whether Veeam software will update back ?
c) How it's going to work as Backup ? as it's replicating with all changes at the same time (like mirroring) ? Is that because of restore point or versioning of replica ?
Thanks for your time !!
You still need VM backup because you can't live with VM replication only. So if you got Veeam for VM backup - just leave VM replication to Veeam as well!
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Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
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@KOOLER said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
You still need VM backup because you can't live with VM replication only. So if you got Veeam for VM backup - just leave VM replication to Veeam as well!
I love honest vendors!
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Regarding backup, if you buy Veeam, then you do have the option to use it for Replication as well as for backup as @KOOLER stated.
It does work, but it does add complexity. It also adds features though.
Hyper-V replication has no notifications. You have to check it yourself.
Veeam does notifications by default.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Hyper-V will do the triggering, Starwind just makes the storage HA so that the Hyper-V trigger will work
No, Hyper-V does not. You have to have Clustering setup for that. Clustering also requires all VM's on both servers to be fully licensed.
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
I agree with you about using Hyper-v inbuilt replica will make things clear.
But when I seen Veeam B&R replication software, which was in budget price, thought to have a look how commercial product benefiting me.
I have never tried Hyper-V replication. And no idea how easier/harder it is. So I thought paid/commercial software will make my things easier and give peace of mind than free one (sometimes)
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
I agree with you about using Hyper-v inbuilt replica will make things clear.
But when I seen Veeam B&R replication software, which was in budget price, thought to have a look how commercial product benefiting me.
I have never tried Hyper-V replication. And no idea how easier/harder it is. So I thought paid/commercial software will make my things easier and give peace of mind than free one (sometimes)
I would use Veeam over Hyper-V if you have it purchased because of the notifications if nothing else. You also get more control on how many replicas to keep and such.
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I would not buy Veeam for backup as my first choice for Hyper-V if you have less than 1TB of data to backup though.
Well assuming that Unitrends still offers 1TB for free.
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
I agree with you about using Hyper-v inbuilt replica will make things clear.
But when I seen Veeam B&R replication software, which was in budget price, thought to have a look how commercial product benefiting me.
I have never tried Hyper-V replication. And no idea how easier/harder it is. So I thought paid/commercial software will make my things easier and give peace of mind than free one (sometimes)
I would use Veeam over Hyper-V if you have it purchased because of the notifications if nothing else. You also get more control on how many replicas to keep and such.
That's exactly I was looking, easier and more featured.
How about you said "increasing complexity" ?
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
I would not buy Veeam for backup as my first choice for Hyper-V if you have less than 1TB of data to backup though.
Well assuming that Unitrends still offers 1TB for free.
Yeah, I am aware of free 1TB by unitrends.
Well, we are not eligible for that
as we have more than that data. -
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
I agree with you about using Hyper-v inbuilt replica will make things clear.
But when I seen Veeam B&R replication software, which was in budget price, thought to have a look how commercial product benefiting me.
I have never tried Hyper-V replication. And no idea how easier/harder it is. So I thought paid/commercial software will make my things easier and give peace of mind than free one (sometimes)
I would use Veeam over Hyper-V if you have it purchased because of the notifications if nothing else. You also get more control on how many replicas to keep and such.
That's exactly I was looking, easier and more featured.
How about you said "increasing complexity" ?
You hare adding pieces. By definition, that is adding complexity. You now have to update Veeam in addition to Hyper-V. Veeam installs components on the Hyper-V servers, so there is a new fail point. I have never seen this fail, but it certainly can happen.
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@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
I would not buy Veeam for backup as my first choice for Hyper-V if you have less than 1TB of data to backup though.
Well assuming that Unitrends still offers 1TB for free.
Yeah, I am aware of free 1TB by unitrends.
Well, we are not eligible for that
as we have more than that data.That you checked is great.
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For a "simple" (aka with less moving parts, less complexity) BackUp & Replication product, I would take a good hard look at http://www.altaro.com/vm-backup/
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@openit said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Why are you all over complicating things with extra software.
If he is going to use Hyper-V , then you only need Hyper-V.Server A: Running all the virtual workloads and replicating to Server B with native Hyper-V Replication.
Server B: Receiving the replication. All servers always powered off unless you are going to buy extra Microsoft licensing.
Hyper-V Clustering, not needed.
Nothing against Starwind, but this is completely overcomplicating things for a such a simple scenario.
I agree with you about using Hyper-v inbuilt replica will make things clear.
But when I seen Veeam B&R replication software, which was in budget price, thought to have a look how commercial product benefiting me.
I have never tried Hyper-V replication. And no idea how easier/harder it is. So I thought paid/commercial software will make my things easier and give peace of mind than free one (sometimes)
I would use Veeam over Hyper-V if you have it purchased because of the notifications if nothing else. You also get more control on how many replicas to keep and such.
That's exactly I was looking, easier and more featured.
How about you said "increasing complexity" ?
You hare adding pieces. By definition, that is adding complexity. You now have to update Veeam in addition to Hyper-V. Veeam installs components on the Hyper-V servers, so there is a new fail point. I have never seen this fail, but it certainly can happen.
I see.
What if I planned to get Veeam for VMs Backup on Hyper-V. So, Veeam is already installed for Backup purpose, what if I use if for Replication also
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I'm still stuck scratching my head wondering why we need HA, Veeam, Starwind, SANs, etc... just for 1 DC and 1 FileServer???
I haven't seen anything else mentioned.
First, you don't want to replicate DC's. Have two DC's, both virtualized, on different physical servers, non-replicated.
Second, if you only have one other VM (your file server), you don't need anything else besides Windows Server Backup (WSB). There is no reason what so ever WSB can't handle backing up 2 DCs and 1 File Server. Three servers I can't see spending thousands on something you can do for free with no additional benefit (in your scenario).
I don't see the point in replicating a file server period. If you need replication for a file server, you can use DFS-R. That's even better.
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What I'm envisioning, is two hypervisors (hosts). HV1 and HV2.
HV1
-- DC1 (virtual machine on HV1)
-- FS1 (virtual machine on HV1)
------ FS1 is your file server with DFSR replicating to FS2.HV2
-- DC2 (virtual machine on HV2)
-- FS2 (virtual machine on HV2)
----- FS2 is a second, separate file server running DFSR with FS1.Windows Server Backup running on both hosts backing up everything if you have the room. May be redundant, but you only NEED to back up one host completely.
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@Tim_G said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
I'm still stuck scratching my head wondering why we need HA, Veeam, Starwind, SANs, etc... just for 1 DC and 1 FileServer???
I haven't seen anything else mentioned.
First, you don't want to replicate DC's. Have two DC's, both virtualized, on different physical servers, non-replicated.
Second, if you only have one other VM (your file server), you don't need anything else besides Windows Server Backup (WSB). There is no reason what so ever WSB can't handle backing up 2 DCs and 1 File Server. Three servers I can't see spending thousands on something you can do for free with no additional benefit (in your scenario).
I don't see the point in replicating a file server period. If you need replication for a file server, you can use DFS-R. That's even better.
All of this is a waste of money, feeding the Microsoft machine.
We are in the modern era now. There are not any issues with replicating a DC. Why buy more licensing and add complexity? The same for file shares. for a small office, why pay for more licensing and add more complexity (DFS is not trivial to the SMB IT staff). Not to mention all the time to spend configuring and maintaining it.
Almost no SMB needs to have AD up so critically that they need multiple domain controllers.
Almost no SMB needs share drive access so critically that they need DFS.
As for HA? The OP is not talking about HA. I think @DustinB3403 or someone else used the term first.
The OP and myself have only been discussing backups and replication.
Every SMB needs backups. So Veeam or some other product will be required always.
Replication is not HA, but is redundancy (and the OP knows that). He wants redundancy, and I have listed a few ways to obtain it.
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Honestly, IMO, from what little we know of the OP's environment, he does not need replication either. Just a single server and a backup.
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
Honestly, IMO, from what little we know of the OP's environment, he does not need replication either. Just a single server and a backup.
That's normally the case.
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@JaredBusch said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
@Tim_G said in Hyper V replica VS Veeam B&R Replica.:
I'm still stuck scratching my head wondering why we need HA, Veeam, Starwind, SANs, etc... just for 1 DC and 1 FileServer???
I haven't seen anything else mentioned.
First, you don't want to replicate DC's. Have two DC's, both virtualized, on different physical servers, non-replicated.
Second, if you only have one other VM (your file server), you don't need anything else besides Windows Server Backup (WSB). There is no reason what so ever WSB can't handle backing up 2 DCs and 1 File Server. Three servers I can't see spending thousands on something you can do for free with no additional benefit (in your scenario).
I don't see the point in replicating a file server period. If you need replication for a file server, you can use DFS-R. That's even better.
Almost no SMB needs to have AD up so critically that they need multiple domain controllers.
It's a best practice to include a second DC. The only case where you would only have one DC at a site, is in what Microsoft considers a small branch office, where in that case, it wouldn't be the only DC in the forest anyways. There would be two over in the main site.
Sure, you can decide not to and you may be just fine. You may also be just fine with no UPS and no backups as well. To each his own.
But I would highly recommend implementing at minimum two DCs per AD forest.
If you are so small that you don't need 2 DCs, then do you even need Active Directory?
And you need to define SMB. You said "almost no SMB needs multiple DCs". I almost threw up when I read that. What you said is the same thing as saying: "Almost all SMBs should only have one DC".
Every SMB needs backups. So Veeam or some other product will be required always.
Replication is not HA, but is redundancy (and the OP knows that). He wants redundancy, and I have listed a few ways to obtain it.
Yes, every SMB does need backups. But if you only have 1 or two servers... one being a DC, and the other most likely being a tiny FS, why spend thousands on Veeam at that point?
The OP only mentioned replication... somehow, HA and everything else got mixed in. I wanted to kick it all back out, it doesn't belong.
I figured that if the OP wants anything replicated at all, it'd be the file server data, best done by DFSR.
However, you are right, I don't see a need for any replication what so ever. 2 DCs, 1 FS, and backups is all that's needed here. (unless the OP is leaving a lot of stuff out)
