Leasing IT equipment - worth it or not
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@MattSpeller I don't think he's talking about getting them P3's with 512MB RAM... But does your Receptionist really NEED an Intel i7 with 16GB or RAM?
No? Get her an i3 with 4GB or 8GB of ram and a 256GB SSD drive... Don't have to buy that new.
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@MattSpeller said:
If you can build a business case for chasing around after failing hardware and pissing off your users with ancient crap, by all means go for it. Leave me the heck out of it!
See, this is what I mean. You are using poor purchasing as a reason to not buy used. This is why our customers came through us. They got better than new failure rates because they were getting higher end, better tested gear and there was no ancient crap or unhappy users. Users were thrilled because it allowed small businesses to move into a class of gear they were not spending the money on for new.
Your fears are the REASON to go used, not the reason to avoid it. I feel that you are either buying garbage that fails giving you a bad impression of what good IT gear works like, or you are having bench support issues. What is causing your computers to fail? We don't have those issues even with ten year old boxes.
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@dafyre I agree 100%, but that's what the boxes that are the oldest on the lease are for.
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@MattSpeller said:
@dafyre I agree 100%, but that's what the boxes that are the oldest on the lease are for.
As part of the lease program that we had had, when a box fell down a "tier" they had the option to either pay less and let it go to a lower tier saving them a few dollars a month or they could opt for a "new" box that was at the old tier as a "free upgrade." So for the fixed, predictable price they could keep "up to date" always being a few years behind new.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
I feel bad re-deploying someone's crust-ified & nasty 2 year old laptop
Why do you broadly deploy laptops? There are business cases for having laptops, but I see it as pretty rare. You pay extra and get less and the breakage and wear rate is easily twice as fast. There is up front cost, support cost and replacement costs. It adds up quickly.
I've always moved them to loaner laptops/Admin conference laptops. For say like conference rooms or if someone does a presentation or something that doesn't have a laptop. Usually the only people who get laptops are IT, and some management who need portability. Most users don't need a laptop and they cost a lot more for less. If I would re-deploy them I usually order the $20 aftermarket replacement keyboards if they are nasty... There are some dirty end users out there.
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And in case you think I'm crazy, we used the same gear internally. Success rates were great. Support was a breeze because every tech knew the gear inside and out and we were aware of what failures were likely, how to monitor, had replacements ready. The service quality was way above what people would normally get with new gear.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
I've always moved them to loaner laptops/Admin conference laptops. For say like conference rooms or if someone does a presentation or something that doesn't have a laptop. Usually the only people who get laptops are IT, and some management who need portability. Most users don't need a laptop and they cost a lot more for less. If I would re-deploy them I usually order the $20 aftermarket replacement keyboards if they are nasty... There are some dirty end users out there.
Ditto what we do here. I wish I could get away without a laptop, I hate lugging the stupid thing around like it's my leash.
Nearly 100% of my users are portable & work from more than one location. I suggested hot desking with desktop stations but it never really caught on.
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@MattSpeller said:
Nearly 100% of my users are portable & work from more than one location. I suggested hot desking with desktop stations but it never really caught on.
So they lug laptops around everywhere? Layers and layers of problems
Why do they want to carry everything with them all of the time?And why do you do it?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
Nearly 100% of my users are portable & work from more than one location. I suggested hot desking with desktop stations but it never really caught on.
So they lug laptops around everywhere? Layers and layers of problems
Why do they want to carry everything with them all of the time?And why do you do it?
lol my problems can be discussed in another thread if you really want (I'm ok with not for right now hehe)
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When I first started here full time, we needed about 20 new machines and I did buy them used at an auction house. They all came with Windows XP 2 GB RAM and we used them from 2007 until summer of 2014, so we definitely go our money's worth out of them.
I'm definitely more on board with the thinking of MattSpeller - I don't like deploying crusty old crap - the prettiest dressed up pig is still a pig and even though it shouldn't matter the users, they new the computers weren't new and whined about it for a short while before they just forgot about it.
I did manage one heck of a deal on the previous set of laptops we deployed. HP 530, 550 series laptops. Purchased in Jan 2008 and of the 30 purchased 22 were still being used (although super slow machines) when I retired them in spring 2014.
I did purchase almost all new equipment on the last round, last spring 2014 and I expect to get at least 7 years out of most of them. They all have at least 4 GB RAM and most have HDDs. When the drives fail and they are out of warranty I'd drop in cheap SSDs.
Originally I was thinking the thing that would drive me to replace them again would be that Windows 7 was retiring, but now that all Windows 7 should get a free upgrade to Windows 10, that pushes the possible use out to something like 2025. The computers would be 11 years old then...
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@Dashrender said:
I'm definitely more on board with the thinking of MattSpeller - I don't like deploying crusty old crap - the prettiest dressed up pig is still a pig and even though it shouldn't matter the users, they new the computers weren't new and whined about it for a short while before they just forgot about it.
Some things here...
- They are not old or crusty, you are exhibiting the same behaviour as the users that just didn't like getting something old.
- If the users complain because they want money wasted, fire them, they aren't there on behalf of the business and don't care if the company succeeds. Wrong people to have hired. Who let them complain that money wasn't being wasted on vanity?
- Big enterprises don't do this. Fortune 100 companies deploy what they deploy. You'd never get users allowed to complain that they weren't getting something new.
- How did the users find out that they were used?
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@Dashrender said:
I did purchase almost all new equipment on the last round, last spring 2014 and I expect to get at least 7 years out of most of them. They all have at least 4 GB RAM and most have HDDs. When the drives fail and they are out of warranty I'd drop in cheap SSDs.
How much did you lose getting new for seven years rather than used? I'm guessing you paid at least $500 per machine instead of $100 for used. If you still only plan on getting seven years, was it worth the extra money?
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@Dashrender said:
They all have at least 4 GB RAM and most have HDDs. When the drives fail and they are out of warranty I'd drop in cheap SSDs.
So, just to be clear, you are deploying "new" what I was not dealing with used four years ago. This is exactly what I am talking about. Having to get poor quality or super low end new when you could have high end used. You call any machine that is used at all "krusty", yet I would say that your machines, while not technically used, fall below the minimum line I would have been purchased used long ago. So there is a definite mismatch here in values.
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@scottalanmiller said:
- They are not old or crusty, you are exhibiting the same behaviour as the users that just didn't like getting something old.
That's what I was admitting to.
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@Dashrender said:
Originally I was thinking the thing that would drive me to replace them again would be that Windows 7 was retiring, but now that all Windows 7 should get a free upgrade to Windows 10, that pushes the possible use out to something like 2025. The computers would be 11 years old then...
Rarely is the OS what drives a new system to be deployed. It is the heaviness of the apps and the apps' needs for performance. As people start getting faster machines at home for $100, they will start being unhappy with eleven year old machines at work.
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What I also find surprising is that users are okay with eleven year old machines if they are bought new yet are not okay with two year old machines that are used?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Some things here...
- They are not old or crusty, you are exhibiting the same behaviour as the users that just didn't like getting something old.
What I was admitting to, basically.
- If the users complain because they want money wasted, fire them, they aren't there on behalf of the business and don't care if the company succeeds. Wrong people to have hired. Who let them complain that money wasn't being wasted on vanity?
Good luck.
- Big enterprises don't do this. Fortune 100 companies deploy what they deploy. You'd never get users allowed to complain that they weren't getting something new.
Sure they do, but management just doesn't care in those situations.
- How did the users find out that they were used?
They look at the equipment and can tell from a date stamp or something else that it's not new (i.e. a scratch on the case, etc)
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
They all have at least 4 GB RAM and most have HDDs. When the drives fail and they are out of warranty I'd drop in cheap SSDs.
So, just to be clear, you are deploying "new" what I was not dealing with used four years ago. This is exactly what I am talking about. Having to get poor quality or super low end new when you could have high end used. You call any machine that is used at all "krusty", yet I would say that your machines, while not technically used, fall below the minimum line I would have been purchased used long ago. So there is a definite mismatch here in values.
I paid around $800 each for current generation i5 processors with 4 GB RAM, desktop without monitors and laptops were roughly the same price. Desktops are the HP Elite series with 3 year warranties, and the Laptops are Probooks with 1 year warranty.
In the end you're probably right. Had I looked for a good source of used equipment (no more than 3 years used) I might have been able to pick them up for half what I paid.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What I also find surprising is that users are okay with eleven year old machines if they are bought new yet are not okay with two year old machines that are used?
When you tell them that.. hey your current computer is 11 years old.. you're choice, keep that or switch to this 2 year old used computer, most likely they will take the 2 year old computer.
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User experience and "buy in" is huge, and easily worth the additional cost.
I'll speak for my environment, but the additional cost is honestly peanuts on what we pay highly trained and skilled staff (80 something percent of our staff has a PhD). It improves morale and makes staff interactions way more enjoyable, we saw it come back in spades in the tickets (and the tone of the tickets) we receive.
