File Under "How Dumb Can You Be"?
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@MrWright4hire said:
LMBO! I can tell you feel very passionate about the matter Scott. However, I disagree with you. You see she is a young teen and young teens do foolish things.
Maybe, but most adults aren't useful to be your employees. Most of the ones that are were good workers when they were teens too. A teen is way older than you need to be to know that being grateful to get a job that you pursued is basic common sense, that complaining like she did is rude and inappropriate and that the whole move was moronic. Those aren't things that being a teen excuses. Being five, sure. Being eight, maybe. Being eleven, no. As a teen, ridiculous.
Can foolish teens turn into productive, smart adults? Yes, of course. In reality does it happen often? No, not at all. That's why careers are often based on decisions made as a teen. Careers are made in the teen years. This is a girl throwing away her opportunities to excel.
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@MrWright4hire said:
This foolish act would have been a perfect opportunity for the new employer, who stooped to her level by trying to embarrass her, to mentor her.
It's a pizza shop. I doubt the owner is interested in mentoring someone who hates him and his pizza shop. This isn't someone who "made a mistake." This is a person who hated that they had to work. Mentoring doesn't change that. You mentor people who desire to excel, you don't mentor people who have no interest in the job.
Did he go a little far trying to embarrass her? Sure. But not as far as she did and the audience was only as wide as she made it be. Any embarrassment was created by her. The owner also did something brilliant, he avoided being saddled with a likely terrible employee that he can't trust and hates his business while simultaneously getting huge marketing out of it. He won on two counts. If anything, what he did was the best thing possible for her - he actually taught her a lesson. Had he not fired her, what lesson would she have learned? Nothing.
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@MrWright4hire said:
If anyone who has hiring abilities discriminate her due to this silly misfortune, they aren't worth working for.
There is no misfortune here. She didn't want the job and he relived her of the obligation that she despised. I certainly would never hire someone so rude, tactless, clueless and ungrateful. I guess I'm not worth working for. She demonstrated, far beyond any resume or interview could ever show, that she is unlikely to be a good employee. Honestly, anyone who hired her is pretty foolish. Based on what would you ever employ someone who had done this? What interview or resume feature would be so good that you would think "oh, she is a better candidate that all of the others that we have?"
Unless she is the very last option and there is no one else to hire, I don't see any logical reason why even the most desperate would hire her. Companies don't want to hire the bottom of the barrel. The definitely don't want to hire the publicly known bottom of the barrel. Everyone hires someone bad on accident and has to deal with the high cost that that entails. But doing it when it was obvious and everyone else knew how foolish it was makes your company look ridiculous on top of it.
Honestly, her boss was trapped here. He looked like a fool if he didn't cut her immediately. She backed him into a corner. She attacked his business publicly. Would you honestly hire people to represent you personally who said things like this about you?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MrWright4hire said:
This foolish act would have been a perfect opportunity for the new employer, who stooped to her level by trying to embarrass her, to mentor her.
It's a pizza shop. I doubt the owner is interested in mentoring someone who hates him and his pizza shop. This isn't someone who "made a mistake." This is a person who hated that they had to work. Mentoring doesn't change that. You mentor people who desire to excel, you don't mentor people who have no interest in the job.
Did he go a little far trying to embarrass her? Sure. But not as far as she did and the audience was only as wide as she made it be. Any embarrassment was created by her. The owner also did something brilliant, he avoided being saddled with a likely terrible employee that he can't trust and hates his business while simultaneously getting huge marketing out of it. He won on two counts. If anything, what he did was the best thing possible for her - he actually taught her a lesson. Had he not fired her, what lesson would she have learned? Nothing.
I totally agree with you about he taught her a lesson that is well needed. I don't think that he should have hired her after the fact. I just mentioned that it would have been very big of him to do so. However, I've been in situations that I did something dumb, but once given another chance I bust my tail to prove that f'giving me was the right idea.
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@MrWright4hire said:
As the good book says, let those who hasn't sin cast the first stone.
This is wholly unlike that. No one is condemning here. She is simply never a good candidate to hire. The only casting of stones was done by her.
If you go by that logic, you would always hire the people who seemed the worst because you don't want to "condemn" someone for being a poor job candidate. That's not how jobs work. You always, by law actually, have to hire the best person for the job. It would take an awfully bad person to fall below her level at this point.
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@MrWright4hire said:
With that being said, who amongst us within this post hasn't done something they haven't regretted when they were a teen.
I sure regret damage that I did to my career as a teen and you know what, it means that I'm not as good of a candidate as I would have been had I not been that foolish. That's just reality and no one owes me anything for it. I am years behind in my career, maybe even a decade, because of my own foolishness. But it would be absolutely wrong for me to expect people to hire me over more deserving candidates who didn't make those mistakes because they are legitimately smarter than me and more deserving.
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@MrWright4hire said:
You probably thank God that they didn't have FB, Twitter...etc back when you did all of your foolishness.
Actually no, I'm very sorry that they didn't because that would have helped me immensely. I've worked very, very hard since I was 24 to get everything that I said or did into the public record because knowing that everything you do is recorded and will be examined means that you can push yourself to be better and can benefit from doing good things. No one is as public as I am. I think that it is a very good thing, it exposes weakness, but also strength. It helps us learn about ourselves and learn about others.
When everyone is public all of the time, no one is disadvantaged. FB, Twitter, etc. don't hurt anyone more today than before, there is only one pool of potential employees. There are different tools for determining who is good or bad, but the chances of making yourself look good or bad are the same as they always were.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MrWright4hire said:
If anyone who has hiring abilities discriminate her due to this silly misfortune, they aren't worth working for.
There is no misfortune here. She didn't want the job and he relived her of the obligation that she despised. I certainly would never hire someone so rude, tactless, clueless and ungrateful. I guess I'm not worth working for. She demonstrated, far beyond any resume or interview could ever show, that she is unlikely to be a good employee. Honestly, anyone who hired her is pretty foolish. Based on what would you ever employ someone who had done this? What interview or resume feature would be so good that you would think "oh, she is a better candidate that all of the others that we have?"
Unless she is the very last option and there is no one else to hire, I don't see any logical reason why even the most desperate would hire her. Companies don't want to hire the bottom of the barrel. The definitely don't want to hire the publicly known bottom of the barrel. Everyone hires someone bad on accident and has to deal with the high cost that that entails. But doing it when it was obvious and everyone else knew how foolish it was makes your company look ridiculous on top of it.
Honestly, her boss was trapped here. He looked like a fool if he didn't cut her immediately. She backed him into a corner. She attacked his business publicly. Would you honestly hire people to represent you personally who said things like this about you?
This is how I would have handled it. I would have embarrassed her professionally, tell her her options, extend her probation period to 6mos and teach her.
All I'm saying Scott is what if that was your kid. You would be mad at your child at the same time you would hope that someone would give them a chance. To have an unforgiving attitude is disrespectful to life it self. It's always those who don't f'give are the first one to ask for f'giveness when they do something wrong. Due to the fact that we're not perfect, anyone can bank on messing up a some point in there life. I just think that if an employer take the chance with her, he/she needs to take the time to explain that they are willing to give her a chance, but she going to have to work hard to keep her spot.
That's just me. -
Basically... I don't feel that she should be punished, nor should she be rewarded. She should be held accountable like everyone else. She should not get special dispensation for being a "dumb teen". None of her peers will get that. Everyone is accountable for their mistakes. If we give one person a free pass, then we discriminate. If we give no one one, everyone is treated equally.
There are plenty of people who won't bad mouth the pizza shop who probably want to work there. Why should someone who hates it there get the job when a good employee is losing an opportunity to shine if that girl get hired? If you don't hold her accountable, then you punish someone more deserving instead, that's far worse.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Basically... I don't feel that she should be punished, nor should she be rewarded. She should be held accountable like everyone else. She should not get special dispensation for being a "dumb teen". None of her peers will get that. Everyone is accountable for their mistakes. If we give one person a free pass, then we discriminate. If we give no one one, everyone is treated equally.
There are plenty of people who won't bad mouth the pizza shop who probably want to work there. Why should someone who hates it there get the job when a good employee is losing an opportunity to shine if that girl get hired? If you don't hold her accountable, then you punish someone more deserving instead, that's far worse.
Scott I think in some awkward aspect, we are saying the same thing in a different way. lol! I agree with you that she do not need to be giving any special treatment. I take that back. She should get special treatment and discrimination should take place. If given the chance, she should have to work extra hard to show that she really wants to work. Note, there is a difference between offering a "free pass" as oppose to offering another, yet hard to earned, opportunity.
Without opportunities, no one would be good enough to show that they have grown. Point and example...you. You learn from your mistake and you're a better man, in my opinion as well as a great mentor. Without opportunities, you could be a lot more behind then you say you are. Maybe still at ground zero in Detroit. -
The real problem here is that what she did is pretty huge from an employer perspective. This is going to make every subsequent entry level job that much harder to get. Especially being in a not huge town.
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What is extra funny is that this is Jet's Pizza in Mansfield, a town where lots of @dominica's family resides and is a place in Texas where we go all of the time. I'm totally going to stop there now and eat at this famous pizza place!
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P.S. I still love my big brotha in you Scott! lol! No Homo!
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I think in a lot of ways this was a good thing for this kid, depending on how she handles it from here. If she learned her lesson about social media, and how what you put up on the internet is there to haunt you forever more, this is a fairly mild way to learn that lesson. If she was smart, she would put together an assembly for her peers about the consequences of tweeting or Facebooking before you think. She could easily become a role model and public speaker, if she went the mature direction here.
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Thankfully for her this is really a "fifteen minutes of fame" kind of thing. She removed her Twitter account and it never had her full name. As long as she isn't in her home town doing certain types of jobs she will be quickly forgotten and this has the potential to be nothing but a blip in her job history and a good learning opportunity. She really did little real damage to herself outside of not getting a paycheck this week and feeling like an idiot, if she even realizes what a dumb move it was.
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That she deleted her account suggests that she figured out that it was not the wisest thing to have posted.
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Does anyone else remember the bizzare era when using your real name, or even real photos, online was considered the biggest no-no, worst possible thing you could ever do? They would tell young people not to do this constantly, it's sort of weird how now thanks to people like Mark Zuckerberg who want everyone to use their real names everywhere (completely psychotic), there's now a strange disconnection, people think the only humans that can read what they are are those who they directly know.
Don't use your real name, then complain about your job all you want. Whatever happened to being anonymous? Why did we go from "OMFG YOU TOLD HIM/HER YOUR REAL NAME, THAT WAS STUPID, YOU DON'T KNOW THEM!!@" to "yeah sure here's my real name, everyone I'm related to (all tagged in photographs), all my interests, my entire life history, etc."
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@tonyshowoff said:
Does anyone else remember the bizzare era when using your real name, or even real photos, online was considered the biggest no-no, worst possible thing you could ever do? They would tell young people not to do this constantly, it's sort of weird how now thanks to people like Mark Zuckerberg who want everyone to use their real names everywhere (completely psychotic), there's now a strange disconnection, people think the only humans that can read what they are are those who they directly know.
Don't use your real name, then complain about your job all you want. Whatever happened to being anonymous? Why did we go from "OMFG YOU TOLD HIM/HER YOUR REAL NAME, THAT WAS STUPID, YOU DON'T KNOW THEM!!@" to "yeah sure here's my real name, everyone I'm related to (all tagged in photographs), all my interests, my entire life history, etc."
Believe it or not, I'm not really an owl and nadnerB isn't my real name
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