Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish
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@stacksofplates said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
We had no driver issues like you're mentioning other than NVIDIA which is kind of a given.
I have constant issues with Nvidia on both Linux and Windows. Both suck, Nvidia is just a common problem.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
if your smart you can get Win 10 Home license for 15$ valid but you just need to research
Once you are pirating, you might as well get it for free. $15 copies are fake and all you are doing is throwing $15 away. The base cost of Windows is just the base cost, there is no way around it. If Windows isn't worth paying for, then the point is made because I'd definitely pay for Linux if I had to.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
ASRock DeskMini A300W AMD Socket AM4 AMD A300 1 x HDMI Barebone System
with Samsung NVMe 970 SSD
and 2200G
Ubuntu LTS 18.04
I cant use the never versions cause GPU driver is unavailable man on 19.04 or 19.10I don't understand.... That's basically the same desktop that we use. There is no GPU, that's something that you add on either with an extra graphics card or, more commonly, through an AMD APU. We go this route because it works so flawlessly with Linux. Ubuntu 19.10 here, on two of these. And we had Fedora on it before that, all worked great. Graphics card "just works". Zero configuration. Just install and done.
But, you can't call it a video gaming machine, it's anything but. APUs are just enough power to render a desktop, not meant for gaming.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@black3dynamite said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
if you want to connect to linux SSH using mRemoteNG or Cmder
Windows 10 comes with a native SSH client and server. SSH client is enable by default.
Can it deal with SSH keys also ? that is why i use CMDer
Of course it can. It is OpenSSH and operates identically to SSH on Linux. We use keys with it every day. It uses the same commands, uses the same keys, stores them in the same way, etc. It's identical.
This is a weird "having no faith in Windows and thinking it's crap" while in a thread where you are raving about how good it is. I am no Windows fan, but I seem to have more basic faith in it than you do, which is weird given the context. I think it's way better than you do, but not good enough to run. When I need it, I access it as a VM from Linux because that's way more stable and easy than using it as a daily driver.
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@Obsolesce said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
Verify the hardware is supported by the software you want to run. You do this with everything, OSs included.
Right, if you were to buy "Linux only" hardware and try to install Windows, it wouldn't work at all. The difference is, people install Linux on "Windows only" hardware every day and 99% of the time, it works anyway.
But Windows is so limited that Windows users would never, ever try the opposite, even though it is right in front of their faces. Put Windows on a Raspberry Pi? Run Windows on a cell phone? Windows people will say this example is ridiculous... yet it's the same in reverse. Linux runs on those beautifully, we all do it every day. Windows won't even run, let alone handle all of the peripherals.
Basically, in order to make Linux have anything to complain about, it has to be used in a way that no one would ever accept Windows to be used to make examples of where Linux isn't magically perfect. It actually highlights the insane degree to which Windows loses in a comparison like this, that such bizarrely contrived examples have to be made, while the obvious comparison disregarded as so impossible as to be implausible.
The standard thing I've always seen is "Linux is seen as hard because it can be hard to make it do some things, but Windows is seen as easy because it is so hard that those same things are just dismissed as impossible."
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
You guys dont get it, we love Linux to much we are blind...
Except we are all pointing out that you love Windows so much that nothing you are stating makes sense. You are blinded to how much you are missing the point.
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@Pete-S said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
That's true. But it's because few hardware manufacturer gives a shit about a couple of nerds running linux desktops when the rest of the worlds desktops are windows, and a couple of macs.
Tell that to the best selling computers in the world. Windows doesn't run on Raspberry Pi, phones, the majority of Chromebook hardware, etc. All of the top selling categories, and the top selling processor, all don't run Windows at all. Your definition of "a couple of nerds" involves the majority of the planet including most of the least nerdy people like senior citizens, casual users, etc.
Just because nerds like something easy and way more broadly supported doesn't make it a niche, just unusual.
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@Pete-S said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
The only reason linux survives on the desktop is because it's open source.
Or maybe because it's so good. SO good. Like just try it and "holy crap, I didn't realize my desktop could improve so much."
Seriously, just try it. It's not a small margin that it improves on the Windows experience.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
There is nothing Windows can do that Linux cant, however the opposite is not true.
Exactly. Linux gives you everything Windows can do, and 100x more. Windows is so limited. It supports 1% of the hardware, requires so much more tweaking and "nerd attention." Windows is for IT people to operate, not for "normals" to just use. Linux gives you all the power, while still being tuned for every day users to not have to deal with drivers or knowing if their hardware will be supported.
Linux doesn't make limits. It sets you free. Not just lower cost, not just way more hardware support, but so much more simple, so much more "just works". More intuitive. There is a reason we say it's for your grandparents now, finally a computer system that you don't have to be a power user to be able to get things done.
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@flaxking said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
I haven't done much of it with Windows 10, but back with Windows 7, if the peripheral was not officially Windows 7 compatible it could be a real PITA to install.
We are having TONS of this now after the Win7 > Win10 update. The number of common devices that "used to be supported but don't work anymore" is very high. He's clearly not been using Windows much if he's not seeing this regularly. HP printers are a big one, their older printers don't work on Windows 10. Thank goodness they "just work" on Linux, so we have simple fixes for people who upgraded to Windows 10 and got screwed by the limited hardware support.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
What about GPU performance? and drivers for that
Yup, extremely good. Works just the same for me. So that's a non-issue unless you are doing something crazy.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
Thats my point, you will get more in Windows ENV
No, you don't. Full stop. Anyone who thinks this is intentionally ignoring the entire boat. We can't take this discussion seriously if you say things like this.
Windows gets a small number of sometimes useful apps that no one else gets.
Linux gets a small number of sometimes useful apps that no one else gets.
No really great software company limits to either intentionally, all limits are legacy kruft. It's insane to do it intentionally, and embarrassing to any real developer. Nearly everything people claim is "Just on Windows" actually isn't (and vice versa.) There are things, but both sides have these apps, and both have alternatives.
There is simply nothing of significance that you can't do with both. But Windows introduces staggering complexity, fragility, cost, and limits that you just don't need. I've yet to have a greenfield company justify even keeping Windows on the table, the lack of any viable advantage being the simple problem. Without dealing with a foregone conclusion, find me a single example of where Windows would be viable with a greenfield?
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
System76 cheapest option 1000$ my hardware is like 300-400$
Okay then, Raspberry Pi 4. Full computer for about $70. Every peripheral "just works" on Linux. Whey the fuck would you blow $300 for a struggling piece of crap Windows machine when for half that you can have a nice power friendly Linux one with even better driver support?
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@Obsolesce said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
System76 cheapest option 1000$ my hardware is like 300-400$
What kind of nice gaming gpus are you talking about in a $300 system? I think you are full of it.
https://www.jeremymorgan.com/blog/linux/pine64-pro-laptop-review/
A gaming GPU starts around $300 by itself!
I have the cheapest system you can get with even reasonable performance on ASRock and it is $405 without Windows and $500 with Windows (and obviously slower and less capable.)
Mobo of $50, case of $60, HD of $60, RAM of $120 or so, CPU is like $100
You can maybe get a little cheaper. But not with the A300 example that he gave. That's $150 for the mobo and case. The A10 processor is the cheapest you can do with any performance there and that's $75. That's $225 with no HD or RAM. And the GPU on the A10 isn't even remotely in the ballpark for gaming, it's like your iPhone's GPU. It's enough for a desktop, but not enough for anything but really old games. It's great for an office bare bones machine, but that's it.
If you got the cheapest hard drive and just a tiny amount of RAM, maybe today you could come out around $350 with Linux, but $450 with Windows.
If he has $300 with Windows, and Windows starts at $100, that means his hardware is $200 - $150 for the barebones kit leaving a total of $50 for his CPU, GPU, RAM, and hard drive all combined!
Windows is 33% of his entire computer cost! WTF How does anything think that that makes sense? LOL
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@scottalanmiller said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
System76 cheapest option 1000$ my hardware is like 300-400$
Okay then, Raspberry Pi 4. Full computer for about $70. Every peripheral "just works" on Linux. Whey the fuck would you blow $300 for a struggling piece of crap Windows machine when for half that you can have a nice power friendly Linux one with even better driver support?
Screenshot or it didn't happen, right?
I'm quoting this as it's one of the rare times that SAM has dropped an f bomb
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Obsolesce said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
System76 cheapest option 1000$ my hardware is like 300-400$
What kind of nice gaming gpus are you talking about in a $300 system? I think you are full of it.
https://www.jeremymorgan.com/blog/linux/pine64-pro-laptop-review/
My smartphone has more resources than that crap...
ASRock DeskMini A300W AMD Socket AM4 AMD A300 1 x HDMI Barebone System
244.99 CADAMD 2200G
Was on sale got it for 100 CADsamsung 970 evo plus 250gb
90 CADtotal
340.56 United States DollarAnd RAM 8-16 GB, started with 8 then updated
So that's $340 base. Plus you need the RAM, maybe that's $50. Then $100 of Windows. Just to get it up and running. But you can run Linux on the same system and get slightly better performance for 27% less money.
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@DustinB3403 said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@scottalanmiller said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
System76 cheapest option 1000$ my hardware is like 300-400$
Okay then, Raspberry Pi 4. Full computer for about $70. Every peripheral "just works" on Linux. Whey the fuck would you blow $300 for a struggling piece of crap Windows machine when for half that you can have a nice power friendly Linux one with even better driver support?
Screenshot or it didn't happen, right?
I'm quiting this as it's one of the rare times that SAM has dropped an f bomb
It's funny to see this thread while we are in the middle of working on replacing Windows machines with Ubuntu for half the cost, because it makes the clients more efficient with fewer support needs, fewer driver issues, fewer update issues, etc.
Given that this past week was one of the most dramatic "Windows has so many problems" weeks where licensing, drivers, patching, cost, etc. all hit the average business pretty hard.
We are talking to customers who are facing fork lifts of their entire environment to make Windows function .... or maybe they will just move to Linux and eliminate the issue entirely.
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For those not aware. MSRP on Windows 10 is $139 (for Home.) Amazon and a few other main stream, legit retailers cut their margins to ribbons and sell it for $119. This is roughly the base legit price that you can get. Anything significantly below this cannot be from Microsoft as the retailer has to pay roughly that amount for the license to sell to you. There is no such thing as a "discount" on software like this, it logically cannot exist.
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@Emad-R said in Using GNU\Linux on your workstation is rubbish:
but it just takes alot of effort and patience to make linux work with peripherals and once you do keeping your system up to date is difficult it might botch your manual configs..
My guess here is that you have one or two extremely isolated, niche Windows-only peripherals that no one would normally use that are you stuck with for some reason. My guess is that the cost of these peripherals is a couple of dollars, which is small compared to the cost of Windows. These are likely not supported on Linux because they are old and effectively unused and they work on Windows because the vendor had to make drivers for something so that they could sell them long ago and no one works on them anymore and they just happen to still work on Windows so you are lucky.
If you use unsupported drivers on any OS it's going to make things complicated to maintain. Just try getting drivers working on Windows that aren't written for it, then tell me which is harder.
The simple answer is... never do this with any OS. You'd never consider it with Windows, macOS, Solaris, so don't consider it with Linux even though Linux is so powerful and easy that it seems like maybe you can get away with it. No OS can make that process truly easy, Linux simply makes it possible. That you experience this frustration is actually proof that Linux is kicking the crap out of everyone else in ease of use because it's just "impossible" with every other OS.
Your take away here is backwards, you are frustrated with Linux for making something previously impossible into just something "hard" instead of being frustrated with junk peripherals and too hard to even try Windows. You are taking a real problem, and getting angry at the solution maker.
In the real world, peripheral are normally purchased to work in a specific ecosystem. Why do you have peripherals that are only for Windows, but are running Linux? Are you trying to use "whatever is lying around", or did you buy something without checking first? In the first case, okay, but the cost of Windows ($120 - $140 per machine) adds up fast compared to what, a $5 USB dongle?
A quick search turned up a $3 adapter built for Linux (but not Windows), or this well ranked one that works for both: TPLink USB Wifi Dongle. Given those numbers, an older wifi dongle likely has a value of somewhere between $1 and $5, tops. A tiny fraction of the cost of Windows to fix a simple problem. Plus wifi is the kind of thing you want new from time to time, new standards, tech and all.
Somewhere is there expensive peripherals that only work on Windows? Sure. And the same for Linux. One thing we deal with literally every day is $10K+ equipment that isn't just Windows only, but old Windows only and can't be patched, maintained, or kept in any environment with HIPAA, PCI, etc. That's something that really never happens in the Linux world, but is continuous in the Windows world - those "Windows only" drivers are rarely maintained and seem like a good, supported deal when purchased but screw the customer when patches need to be applied and they learn that "Windows compatible" rarely means very much.
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We have one staffer that feels that they can't use Linux because they have special apps and do special non-IT tasks that require things that don't run on Linux. And the make a good case for it. However, in their case, those special apps don't run on Windows, either, and they need a macOS machine.
So in the only example that we have readily in house, the idea that "there are cases that every OS is needed, sometimes" certainly holds up. But that Windows meets the needs by "doing everything" completely doesn't. It doesn't do our normal IT tasks well, it doesn't work well on our IT and standard management hardware, and when it comes to "special needs", it fails just as much as Linux does.
