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    IOPS for SSD?

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    ssd storage servers iops sas sas ssd
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    • DashrenderD
      Dashrender @1337
      last edited by

      @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

      But let the price decide. Dell have huge margins on their SSD drives. That's why they are twice the price compared to buying the same drive from the manufacturer directly.

      As Scott has pointed out before to me, the higher price isn't just them padding (but that is definitely there IMO), but that the manufacturers also have their own custom firmware on these drives that interact with their backend systems/RAID cards, etc.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • wrx7mW
        wrx7m @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said in IOPS for SSD?:

        @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

        BTW, do you really need "mixed use"-drives? Most people's workloads can be handled easily with "read intensive" drives.

        Good point. Mixed use tends to be write heavy databases.

        Well, we do have quite a few DBs, Including a SQL server that has all data replicated from our ERP system in real time. I would say that and the PRTG server see the most write. That being said, I don't think they are "traditionally" write intensive. I picked mixed-use, because the drive would be part of a RAID5 array where the workload would be mixed.

        Should I pursue SSDs spec'd for read?

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @wrx7m
          last edited by

          @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

          Should I pursue SSDs spec'd for read?

          Probably

          wrx7mW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • wrx7mW
            wrx7m @scottalanmiller
            last edited by wrx7m

            @scottalanmiller said in IOPS for SSD?:

            @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

            Should I pursue SSDs spec'd for read?

            Probably

            That will be good then. The drives for Read are much less expensive.

            Edit: Not considerably, but notably less expensive. about $200 cheaper and you get an additional 160GB.

            DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • wrx7mW
              wrx7m @1337
              last edited by

              @Pete-S Where did you find this matrix? I am looking for one for a 960GB RI SSD now.

              1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • 1
                1337 @wrx7m
                last edited by 1337

                @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                @Pete-S Where did you find this matrix? I am looking for one for a 960GB RI SSD now.

                You need to find out what drive it actually is first. Usually it's Samsung or Intel.

                Samsung are called things like PM1635, SM883 and Intel have names like P4610, S3510 etc.
                Sometimes you'll find the actual part number like MZ7KM960HMJP-00005. Just search for it then.

                wrx7mW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • wrx7mW
                  wrx7m @1337
                  last edited by

                  @Pete-S Thanks. This one is harder to find. Dell has several 960GB 2.5" SSD RI SAS drives on their site and the server configuration doesn't list the part numbers, but does list DWPD and TBW, but then their individual drive purchase options don't list those figures. At least, not that I have seen for this capacity.

                  1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • 1
                    1337 @wrx7m
                    last edited by

                    @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                    @Pete-S Thanks. This one is harder to find. Dell has several 960GB 2.5" SSD RI SAS drives on their site and the server configuration doesn't list the part numbers, but does list DWPD and TBW, but then their individual drive purchase options don't list those figures. At least, not that I have seen for this capacity.

                    Do you have a link?

                    wrx7mW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DashrenderD
                      Dashrender @wrx7m
                      last edited by

                      @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                      @scottalanmiller said in IOPS for SSD?:

                      @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                      Should I pursue SSDs spec'd for read?

                      Probably

                      That will be good then. The drives for Read are much less expensive.

                      Edit: Not considerably, but notably less expensive. about $200 cheaper and you get an additional 160GB.

                      This is totally expected. Write heavy SSDs need more cells to move into when you hit write thresholds.

                      1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • wrx7mW
                        wrx7m @1337
                        last edited by

                        @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                        @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                        @Pete-S Thanks. This one is harder to find. Dell has several 960GB 2.5" SSD RI SAS drives on their site and the server configuration doesn't list the part numbers, but does list DWPD and TBW, but then their individual drive purchase options don't list those figures. At least, not that I have seen for this capacity.

                        Do you have a link?

                        Could be this one, but there are several that it could be on their search results.
                        https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/400-bdqr

                        1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • wrx7mW
                          wrx7m
                          last edited by

                          This is the storage config for the server-
                          bb6a7942-953c-4839-ad9a-9ef14b78df3a-image.png

                          1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • 1
                            1337 @Dashrender
                            last edited by 1337

                            @Dashrender said in IOPS for SSD?:

                            @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                            @scottalanmiller said in IOPS for SSD?:

                            @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                            Should I pursue SSDs spec'd for read?

                            Probably

                            That will be good then. The drives for Read are much less expensive.

                            Edit: Not considerably, but notably less expensive. about $200 cheaper and you get an additional 160GB.

                            This is totally expected. Write heavy SSDs need more cells to move into when you hit write thresholds.

                            That is normally not the case. They use different NAND chips in the different models.
                            You will not get three times the endurance by just reserving a couple of hundred gigs extra.

                            For instance Samsung's latest pairing PM883 and SM883 have the same capacity models. PM883 uses Samsung 64-layer TLC V-NAND while the higher endurance SM883 uses Samsung 64-layer MLC V-NAND.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • 1
                              1337 @wrx7m
                              last edited by 1337

                              @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                              @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                              @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                              @Pete-S Thanks. This one is harder to find. Dell has several 960GB 2.5" SSD RI SAS drives on their site and the server configuration doesn't list the part numbers, but does list DWPD and TBW, but then their individual drive purchase options don't list those figures. At least, not that I have seen for this capacity.

                              Do you have a link?

                              Could be this one, but there are several that it could be on their search results.
                              https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/400-bdqr

                              The full name of that says: Dell 960GB SSD SATA Read Intensive 6Gbps 512e, 2.5in Drive in 3.5in Hybrid Carrier S4510.

                              S4510 in the product description being the magic number here. That's an Intel drive. Just look for Intel S4510 960GB drive and you'll find it.

                              PS. Here you go:
                              https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134912/intel-ssd-d3-s4510-series-960gb-2-5in-sata-6gb-s-3d2-tlc.html

                              wrx7mW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • wrx7mW
                                wrx7m @1337
                                last edited by

                                @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                @Pete-S Thanks. This one is harder to find. Dell has several 960GB 2.5" SSD RI SAS drives on their site and the server configuration doesn't list the part numbers, but does list DWPD and TBW, but then their individual drive purchase options don't list those figures. At least, not that I have seen for this capacity.

                                Do you have a link?

                                Could be this one, but there are several that it could be on their search results.
                                https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/400-bdqr

                                The full name of that says: Dell 960GB SSD SATA Read Intensive 6Gbps 512e, 2.5in Drive in 3.5in Hybrid Carrier S4510.

                                S4510 in the product description being the magic number here. That's an Intel drive. Just look for Intel S4510 960GB drive and you'll find it.

                                PS. Here you go:
                                https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134912/intel-ssd-d3-s4510-series-960gb-2-5in-sata-6gb-s-3d2-tlc.html

                                Oh, I see. OK. Thanks for pointing out the obvious 🙂
                                Too bad the server config doesn't tell you exactly which drives they are.

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                                • wrx7mW
                                  wrx7m
                                  last edited by

                                  I overlooked the fact that one was only 6Gbps. I found another one that showed 12Gbps and it had KPM5XRUG960G at the end. I googled that and it seems that one is a Kioxia/Toshiba drive. The DWPD matches the Dell server config description of "1"

                                  https://www.span.com/product/KIOXIA-PM5-R-Toshiba-SSD-Read-Intensive-SIE-KPM5XRUG960G-2-5-SAS-12Gb-960GB-SSD~69373

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • 1
                                    1337 @wrx7m
                                    last edited by 1337

                                    @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                    This is the storage config for the server-
                                    bb6a7942-953c-4839-ad9a-9ef14b78df3a-image.png

                                    I'm not sure about the state of NVMe support on VMware and Dell. But it might be an option.
                                    I mean I'm sure it supported but the question is what options you have for redundancy.

                                    NVMe drives have ridiculous IOPs and transfer rate and a single drive will normally outperform an SSD array.

                                    I'm interest in this myself as I have a customer that are looking at ESXi on Dell R740 servers with the same type of CPU that you have but with less storage capacity overall.

                                    wrx7mW 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • wrx7mW
                                      wrx7m @1337
                                      last edited by

                                      @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                      @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                      This is the storage config for the server-
                                      bb6a7942-953c-4839-ad9a-9ef14b78df3a-image.png

                                      I'm not sure about the state of NVMe support on VMware and Dell. But it might be an option.
                                      I mean I'm sure it supported but the question is what options you have for redundancy.

                                      NVMe drives have ridiculous IOPs and transfer rate and a single drive will normally outperform an SSD array.

                                      I'm interest in this myself as I have a customer that are looking at ESXi on Dell R740 servers with the same type of CPU that you have but with less storage capacity overall.

                                      The SSD array will be a significant upgrade and probably more speed than we would need. However, with the second tier, we need significantly more storage and the IOPS are less of a concern, as it is for file storage.

                                      I can look at prices to see what the cost difference is. I don't think I even considered nvme for the servers.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • wrx7mW
                                        wrx7m @1337
                                        last edited by

                                        @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                        I'm interest in this myself as I have a customer that are looking at ESXi on Dell R740 servers with the same type of CPU that you have but with less storage capacity overall.

                                        I just looked at the cost. You have to select a different chassis- "Chassis up to 24 x 2.5 Hard Drives including 24 NVME Drives, Max of 8 SAS/SATA" , which adds about $1300 bucks,
                                        However, the 960GB nvme drive is only about $50 more than the 960 GB 12Gbps SAS drive I was looking at.

                                        The problem for me, is that I can't get the storage density I need when using 2.5" drives. Also, it would cost quite a bit more if I could.

                                        DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • DashrenderD
                                          Dashrender @wrx7m
                                          last edited by

                                          @wrx7m said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                          @Pete-S said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                          I'm interest in this myself as I have a customer that are looking at ESXi on Dell R740 servers with the same type of CPU that you have but with less storage capacity overall.

                                          I just looked at the cost. You have to select a different chassis- "Chassis up to 24 x 2.5 Hard Drives including 24 NVME Drives, Max of 8 SAS/SATA" , which adds about $1300 bucks,
                                          However, the 960GB nvme drive is only about $50 more than the 960 GB 12Gbps SAS drive I was looking at.

                                          The problem for me, is that I can't get the storage density I need when using 2.5" drives. Also, it would cost quite a bit more if I could.

                                          Interesting. I suppose the question is - do you need the IOPs of NVMe? If so - then perhaps an external DAS shelf for the 3.5 drives for the fileserver would be the way to go.

                                          Of course, if you're using something like StarWinds to create a vSAN for shared storage, that really ups the cost a lot (doubling everything and all).

                                          1 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • 1
                                            1337 @Dashrender
                                            last edited by 1337

                                            @Dashrender said in IOPS for SSD?:

                                            Interesting. I suppose the question is - do you need the IOPs of NVMe?

                                            Since NVMe drives has the best performance and NVMe driver technology is superior, it makes sense to pick NVMe whenever you can. NVMe drives and the SAS-3 drives are priced roughly the same so you get the extra performance for free (if the chassis can take NVMe).

                                            NVMe drives are directly attached to the PCIe bus on the CPU and that why Intel for instance refer to SATA/SAS as legacy technology. The PCIe bus interface is also the reason why they are faster.

                                            DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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