Fax: Sangoma FAXstation
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
When you purchase a DID.
I just went through two different paths to that and never found that page. Or a page with that styling.
Here's the top half of the page
https://i.imgur.com/gP4fe8C.png -
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
no, nothing forces them to use T.38, but I do agree that your comment makes it much less likely. So it's likely that Sagnoma has PRI lines running their fax machines.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Also quoted on their page: "Whether you’re in medical, real estate, legal, offshore communications or any other industry that depends on reliable fax services and wish to enjoy the benefits of VoIP..."
The benefits of VoIP? But no VoIP is used here, either. What does VoIP have to do with this service? They really just throw out buzz words hoping that people don't question it.
Exactly- though, they do mention the possibility that your final mile could go over ISDN PRI or SIP
That's on the OTHER side, AFTER they've sent the fax on the PSTN. They are basically using the "other recipient might use FoIP" as their way to make that sound reasonable. That's after the service is over and isn't a legitimate part of the diagram. That's not their service.
really? You don't think they could mean that they themselves could be using SIP or ISDN PRI? I think you're giving them to much credit.
That's correct, I don't think that they can mean that. That makes no sense at all. As they are not part of the last mile in any way.
That would only make sense if EVERY person you wanted to fax had to get a line directly to Sangoma!
What are you talking about? Sangoma could use SIP to talk to AT&T for their PSTN connection. I don't know, do you know?
That's not the last mile. But if they do that, they'd be forced to use T.38... making their marketing a lie. They can't have it both ways. They talk about their reliability by specifically avoiding that. They can't then just go use it.
no, nothing forces them to use T.38, but I do agree that your comment makes it much less likely. So it's likely that Sagnoma has PRI lines running their fax machines.
Yes, they have to in order for their service to not be completely unreliable. Either they are stuck using PRI, or they are stuck using traditional FoIP to the PSTN and they'd give up the entire point of the system. If they were going to do that, you'd just do it in the first place and cut them out of the middle as they'd be doing nothing at all.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
no, nothing forces them to use T.38...
T.38 is the only reliable fax protocol for SIP.
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Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
We had problems in the past sending faxes to specific clients. The best we could figure was that it was a problem in the way the two different brands talked faxes...
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
They claim error-free and addressing T.38 limitations. That means that SIP isn't an option. They can't use SIP, period, and even casually attempt either of those claims. T.38 is the most advanced way to use SIP.
Error free is because it is PRI, they can claim that whatever goes through is the fax, it might not be error free to a human, but it is error free to the computer because it hands over to analogue and the errors are on the analogue post-Sangoma portion. So while it's pushing it, they have a limited means of saying it.
The statement above has to mean that they aren't using VoIP / SIP. It's that simple.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
The best we could figure was that it was a problem in the way the two different brands talked faxes...
That implies one of them just didn't work, not that the fax didn't work.
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
They claim error-free and addressing T.38 limitations. That means that SIP isn't an option. They can't use SIP, period, and even casually attempt either of those claims. T.38 is the most advanced way to use SIP.
Error free is because it is PRI, they can claim that whatever goes through is the fax, it might not be error free to a human, but it is error free to the computer because it hands over to analogue and the errors are on the analogue post-Sangoma portion. So while it's pushing it, they have a limited means of saying it.
The statement above has to mean that they aren't using VoIP / SIP. It's that simple.
I've already given you this point. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse - queue the horse guy making a comment.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Here is their quote: "FAXStation is Sangoma’s error-free fax service, designed to address the T.38 fax limitations..."
LOL I get that. But fax issues happen all the time, and don't have to be related to FoIP at all.
They claim error-free and addressing T.38 limitations. That means that SIP isn't an option. They can't use SIP, period, and even casually attempt either of those claims. T.38 is the most advanced way to use SIP.
Error free is because it is PRI, they can claim that whatever goes through is the fax, it might not be error free to a human, but it is error free to the computer because it hands over to analogue and the errors are on the analogue post-Sangoma portion. So while it's pushing it, they have a limited means of saying it.
The statement above has to mean that they aren't using VoIP / SIP. It's that simple.
I've already given you this point. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse - queue the horse guy making a comment.
You didn't really give the point. You said that it was "likely" then posted something to say that it didn't really have to mean that.
The horse was still trying to get up.
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Something to keep in mind with this kind of solution, in the "old" days of faxing, you would get on the phone and say "I'm sending now" and humans would listen to the phone ring and the transmission happen. It was real time. The Sangoma product changes that and could cause confusion. That live call piece is the one security mechanism that fax has.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
I'm not saying that it is a good solution for you, but worth looking into. Someone like voip.ms has a $4.95/mo single DID, dual concurrent, unlimited incoming line option, that should handle 3,000 pages a month without much problem. Same two lines that you have now. Would be cheap to test and see if it worked for you.
I need 16K pages a month.. not 3K.
I'll have to look into it with VOIP.ms... though, the last time I looked, the flat fee lines were only for consumer, not business customers.
voip.ms doesn't offer consumer or business plans. Just unlimited and per minute plans.
https://i.imgur.com/srtEDki.png
OK I said consumer instead of residential. I'm guessing that the expectation is that you will have a fairly low usage. My use of 600+ mins a day would likely make me an outlier in the residential sector - though certainly not unheard of.
What page is that on?
When you purchase a DID.
I just went through two different paths to that and never found that page. Or a page with that styling.
Here's the top half of the page
https://i.imgur.com/gP4fe8C.pngAh, I see, only once you are already signed in, and go to get another number. I've never tried to order a non-per minute plan so never saw that. Good catch. They really bury that deep into the process.
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Did you see these:
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Did you see these:
Is this for T.38 or for them accepting the faxes? And where do they put them? in your email - no thanks, for why see above, on their server, no thanks, see above.
Assuming 600 mins/day, * 22 days in a month = 13,200 mins * 0.029 = $382.80 plus monthly fee... half that $700/month, but 5+ times the $70 a month I currently pay.
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Is 600 about what you are doing now? I have no good idea of how to estimate the time necessary for fax reception.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Is this for T.38 or for them accepting the faxes?
T.38 is on the normal SIP line, you don't have something special for that.
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@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
in your email
Email would just be a file server in that case. What do you have now, how do the files get to your NAS?
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@scottalanmiller said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
@dashrender said in Fax: Sangoma FAXstation:
Is this for T.38 or for them accepting the faxes?
T.38 is on the normal SIP line, you don't have something special for that.
My question is really - are they accepting the faxes on your behalf, or are they forward the fax call onto you, and you terminate the call and process the fax yourself?
I'm assuming they are terminating the call at that price point.
