Cell phones survey
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
http://musicphotolife.com/2014/07/nokia-lumia-930-review-a-better-windows-phone/
"Apps like “Gmail”, “YouTube”, “Google Search” do not come from Google. The only giveaway is the app developer name. Such is the problem with Windows Store: these big brands aren’t creating apps for Windows Phones, leaving a gap for these opportunistic app developers to take advantage of consumer naivety."
Here they act like the vendor name was always different. But they leave out that it was often only different by ways an end user could never know - like does Google use "Google", "Google Inc", "Google Corp" and so forth. Sometimes they were obvious if you paid attention. Sometimes, there was no way to know at all other than knowing that said vendor wasn't on that platform.
Understood, but more than 3 years ago before the release of Win10 Mobile, which is what this whole thing is about. IDGAF about anything prior, it's dog poo, and I'm glad I didn't have the misfortune of experiencing it.
Burned bridges are burned bridges. Have they taken steps to amend the lost faith? Or have they just depended on their customer base turning over and forgetting that they aren't to be trusted?
That you've not seen it doesn't imply it isn't there, just that they've made it less obvious to you or cleaned it up some. That's not the same as a public apology, making amends and taking actual steps towards prevention.
I care how it is now, when I use it. It's good and safe now, not at all how you think of it (anymore). So, I will use it. MS wants to make money from the store that's shared across all the Win10 based platforms. It's not what it was when Balmer was pushing that crap.
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I guess what I don't understand is...
- Now that you know that they were using their store as a way to trick customers, why do you think that they won't do that again. You've identified a bad actor working in a bad way. What makes you trust them now.
- Now that you know how they were doing this, you know that you can't be confident that they are not still doing it. Given that you can't trust your eyes, what makes you confident that things have actually changed rather than they've just improved how well they hide it?
I'm not saying they are still doing bad things. I'm saying that given their track record and behaviour, what makes you confident in them?
Every big company is bad or has done questionable things whether purposely or by mistake. There are no guaranteeswith anyone. How can you use Apple? They are notorious for bad acting and hiding their horrible inhumane practices.
You can't pick and choose. I use the Microsoft products like Windows Server so I kind of have to trust they arent purposely infecting my phone with Malware, especially after already being in the spotlight with their app store screwup in the past.
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I wonder, though, how much we don't hear about fake apps is not because they are not there, but because there are so few customers. I actually thought that Microsoft had dropped their phone line earlier this year. I didn't know they were still supporting it at all. It's gone from a decently news worthy item to "can you buy that any more?" With so few users, and the remaining ones being naturally filtered to only those that are very loyal and/or happy and/or don't realize that there are issues it would not be surprising for the old news of the fake apps to have simply lost steam.
It could easily be like Lenovo. Does Lenovo no longer spy on their customers, steal their data or do other illegal things? I'm sure that they continue like they always have, but unlike several years ago, no one using Lenovo today cares about those things and likes them regardless of that. And everyone that is upset with Lenovo is tired of hearing the news because we've all already moved on.
So that news of it has stopped is expected regardless of if the trend remains or changed. That it has changed enough to not be overwhelmingly obvious, sure that seems likely if you aren't seeing it, but that you didn't know that it was what the store was known for - can you honestly say that that all those apps that you are not installing are really from the vendors that they should be?
Apps for IT pros are far less likely to be ones targeted than ones for teenages or whatever.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
Every big company is bad or has done questionable things whether purposely or by mistake. There are no guaranteeswith anyone. How can you use Apple? They are notorious for bad acting and hiding their horrible inhumane practices.
Give me an example of where Apple has treated me or any customer of mine in this way? You know that Lenovo and Microsoft did this to people you know. Has Apple? This is new news to me. What has Apple done? I really dislike Apple as a company, but I've not heard about this before.
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
I wonder, though, how much we don't hear about fake apps is not because they are not there, but because there are so few customers. I actually thought that Microsoft had dropped their phone line earlier this year. I didn't know they were still supporting it at all. It's gone from a decently news worthy item to "can you buy that any more?" With so few users, and the remaining ones being naturally filtered to only those that are very loyal and/or happy and/or don't realize that there are issues it would not be surprising for the old news of the fake apps to have simply lost steam.
It could easily be like Lenovo. Does Lenovo no longer spy on their customers, steal their data or do other illegal things? I'm sure that they continue like they always have, but unlike several years ago, no one using Lenovo today cares about those things and likes them regardless of that. And everyone that is upset with Lenovo is tired of hearing the news because we've all already moved on.
So that news of it has stopped is expected regardless of if the trend remains or changed. That it has changed enough to not be overwhelmingly obvious, sure that seems likely if you aren't seeing it, but that you didn't know that it was what the store was known for - can you honestly say that that all those apps that you are not installing are really from the vendors that they should be?
Apps for IT pros are far less likely to be ones targeted than ones for teenages or whatever.
I think Win10 mobile is going to die soon and be replaced with the "surface phone" platform.... Actual Win10 on phone devices.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
You can't pick and choose. I use the Microsoft products like Windows Server so I kind of have to trust they arent purposely infecting my phone with Malware, especially after already being in the spotlight with their app store screwup in the past.
I'm unclear what you are saying here. Are you picking and choosing, or choosing to ignore? You "have to trust that they are not doing something" that we know tha they did. It wasn't a screwup, that we know. You are downplaying a very serious activity. They made money peddling malware. It was news for years, everyone knew it and they kept doing it because it was bringing in money.
I get that we can "pick and choose" a little and say that the Windows Mobile group is effectively a different company from Windows Servers, because it is. Even legally it is separated. The Windows Server group won't go down that path. But that their phone group won't do it again or isn't doing it now? We have zero reason to think that based on everything that we know.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
I think Win10 mobile is going to die soon and be replaced with the "surface phone" platform.... Actual Win10 on phone devices.
That sounds even worse. At least the Windows Phones used to have working hardware. Surface is like a code word for "DOA."
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I'm going to start calling hardware that has died "surfaced."
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Article where Microsoft claimed to be taking action, you'll notice that the final posts are a year later pointing out that Microsoft's initiative to clean up the store and deal with known fake apps was a lie. MS never followed up.
How long have you been using the Windows Phone platform to have confidence in it? Sounds like if it got cleaned up, it must have just happened recently. Recently enough that no one seems to be aware of it. I can't find references to it being fixed.
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Trying to find a reference to this being fixed other than you saying so, but I'm struggling to do so. I'm finding some nice articles, though.
https://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cesspool-of-scams-why-doesnt-microsoft-care/
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Here is an article talking about how Microsoft actually paid developers for fake apps for the Windows 10 Store.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-windows-store-less-mess/
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So, you asked for proof when you thought that I was crazy. I'll do the same. Now that we've established beyond any doubt that what we had seen was widely known, even admitted to by MS, and rampant the onus shifts and now the question is... did it get fixed and if so, when? I'm struggling to find any information from any source that shows that the issues were actually fixed. That you didn't know that there was this problem, and we know it was there recently, it's reasonable for us to assume that the issue still exists and that you just did not identify it. It can't be as bad, it would be impossible to use the phone if it hadn't improved some, but that it has actually been fixed seems very unlikely and pushing impossible. To have had it been so bad for three years, then have it miraculously fixed silently with no one talking about it? Seems reasonably unlikely.
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I guess myself and those around me are the only people in the world that haven't had a bad experience with Windows 10 and devices. Seems weird.
My wife uses a Surface 3 and has since it came out. Not a single issue except the typical micro USB crap. I used the 950xl since it came out, not a single issue, but needs a new battery.
None of this reflects badly on the Win10 OS.
Don't like their hardware? Get an Asus. That's what I'd do if I could do it over again, and I'd still use Win10.
If you don't want malware, don't use any store... Android, Apple, or Windows... They are all vulnerable. It wasn't Microsoft pushing the malware. People took advantage of a poorly designed system and also took Microsoft too much time to fix it.
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Recent article talking about how Microsoft still isn't screening the app store: http://windowsreport.com/windows-store-piracy/
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
If you don't want malware, don't use any store... Android, Apple, or Windows... They are all vulnerable.
As you know, aren't talking about vulnerabilities. We are talking about the vendor intentionally promoting malware. You are working very hard to defend them. But it doesn't work that way. What they did is wrong. It appears that they are still doing it. Maybe you know people that don't want to tell you what they've seen. Maybe you know people with similar misunderstandings of the store. I don't know, but this has been common knowledge for years. I'm not sure how you missed it in the past, but that you did and that it appears it's still a common problem, it's the logical, rational conclusion that the most likely thing is that you are just not aware of it now.
None of those other stores are similar. So either you are not understanding the problem, or intentionally trying to cover up for them. The later would suggest you no longer trust them either.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
It wasn't Microsoft pushing the malware.
Not according to the news. Microsoft didn't just promote it, they paid for some of it.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
None of this reflects badly on the Win10 OS.
That they paid to put malware into the Windows 10 Store that is part of the OS? How does that not reflect badly on it?
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
My wife uses a Surface 3 and has since it came out. Not a single issue except the typical micro USB crap. I used the 950xl since it came out, not a single issue, but needs a new battery.
You are lucky, two devices without one of them failing. You had a 25% chance of that. But that's how risk works, 25% chance is still decently high. As an MSP that has to support them, our failure rate is around 50%.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
Don't like their hardware? Get an Asus. That's what I'd do if I could do it over again, and I'd still use Win10.
Windows 10 isn't too bad. It's certainly not good, but not too bad. It's full of ads and it is super slow and the interface is... mediocre. but it isn't bad. But the things that they've done with the Store certainly reflect badly on it.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
I also cannot find any apps that "are" malware.
This one statement might be the key here. If we make one assumption, that you are seeing malware but not realizing it is malware - presumably because it is apps you are not interested in (DuoLingo is not a likely target for malware makers to make the app) it is easily there all the time and you just have no need to filter it out.
It's a reasonable assumption that malware apps use two main criteria to get good results:
- They choose apps missing from the Windows Store, not ones that are there from real vendors so there is no vendor to complain about it.
- They choose apps that are most likely to be used by less technical people who are more anxious to do something fun than to verify if the app is legit or not. Both making their infection rate higher and their chance of being reported lower. Although we've seen that MS doesn't respond to reporting anyway, so that might not be a real issue for malware makers.
Given those logical ways that malware would be targeted, it's apps like Facebook (recently pulled from certain Windows Phone platforms) or SnapChat or who knows what the hipster teenagers use to share food porn these days that are really big targets. Things where people will install them without thinking. Or apps that those people will pay for, without thinking. And apps for the elderly, maybe. Whatever those would be.
You are not likely a target candidate. You are risky. You would likely spot a malware app and you are more likely to report it. Both things that they want to avoid. You are anything but low hanging fruit.
So there is every reasonable chance that the issue here is that you use apps that tend to exist in the store and don't tend to use apps that are likely to be malware and you are not doing activities that cause you to notice malware. That doesn't mean that there is still malware, but all other references suggest that it is still there just like before, but it does mean that there is little reason to feel that just because you have not noticed it to assume that much has changed. That there has been some change, sure, but much? It would take very little change to create a very reasonable situation where the store could still be full of malware, even paid for and promoted malware that you do not see.
Remember, target marketing has come a LONG way in the last three years. Knowing how to make sure only people likely to fall for malware apps ever see them is a pretty trivial bit of intelligence for the store's search system to have. And that kind of intelligence would already be automated on platforms like Google or Facebook, so it's no stretch for it to be in the Windows Store. Even if it wasn't designed for that purpose, effective AI advertising campaigns would cause that to happen organically.
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I like Win10 mobile on my personal phone. I just do. I love the layout of everything and the functionality. I can quickly and easily do the tasks I need to do very efficiently, and the cherry on the top is how nice it looks. So I will continue to use it until I get a new phone which will kinda be soon-ish. I just like it. What else can I say.
It sucks they did that.. I don't know, but it doesn't effect me or anyone else in my life.
My next phone will most likely be Android because I want an Asus phone and want to get off o lf Win10 mobile before it crashes. If it doesn't then maybe ill come back in a few years.
The Windows app store on here... Well what choice do I have if I use Win10 mobile.
What I know for sure is that all "seems" well now.
Now professionally, no Windows Mobile, no Windows store, no exceptions. Its been like since the beginning.
