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    virtualize all the things... ?

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    • bjB
      bj
      last edited by

      What's your favorite open source virtualization platform for SMB?

      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller @bj
        last edited by

        @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

        What's your favorite open source virtualization platform for SMB?

        Don't have one. Okay, okay, I do. I like Xen. Mostly because I've been on it since like 2003. I like PV conceptually. Xen has always treated me well.

        KVM was a silly project and was designed to splinter the market, so I dislike it because of that. Today, Xen and KVM are sibling products of the Linux Foundation. In reality, KVM is the better choice most of the time.

        bjB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • wirestyle22W
          wirestyle22 @marcinozga
          last edited by

          @marcinozga said in virtualize all the things... ?:

          they didn't have underutilized servers

          I seriously doubt that

          bjB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • bjB
            bj @wirestyle22
            last edited by

            @wirestyle22 At what point do you consider a server not "under utilized"?

            wirestyle22W scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller @marcinozga
              last edited by

              @marcinozga said in virtualize all the things... ?:

              I have no idea, but their reasoning was they didn't have underutilized servers so there was no point virtualizing.

              As @wirestyle22 points out... this is almost certainly just lying. Getting good utilization from a single server without virtualization is hard enough. Doing it with all servers is absurdly impossible. That they had more than one server at all suggests that their entire purchasing strategy is likely based around not consolidating (e.g. they bought servers sized to make them appear utilized, rather than fewer larger servers that could consolidate.)

              If your goal is to make virtualization seem unnecessary by first conflating the value with that of consolidation and then sizing servers to be heavily used and you have people who don't catch on to either part, it can seem plausible. But it requires a lot of work and wasted money and in the end, if we looked at what they have, I bet the proof that they needed to virtualize is pretty evident.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • wirestyle22W
                wirestyle22 @bj
                last edited by

                @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                @wirestyle22 At what point do you consider a server not "under utilized"?

                That is actually my point

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @bj
                  last edited by

                  @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                  @wirestyle22 At what point do you consider a server not "under utilized"?

                  When the CPU is 100% 🙂

                  Sounds silly, but that's really kind of the answer.

                  wirestyle22W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • wirestyle22W
                    wirestyle22 @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                    @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                    @wirestyle22 At what point do you consider a server not "under utilized"?

                    When the CPU is 100% 🙂

                    Sounds silly, but that's really kind of the answer.

                    Right

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • bjB
                      bj
                      last edited by

                      If you are hitting 100%, I presume you then back off a little? That seems... unhealthy in the long term.

                      wirestyle22W scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • wirestyle22W
                        wirestyle22 @bj
                        last edited by wirestyle22

                        @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                        If you are hitting 100%, I presume you then back off a little? That seems... unhealthy in the long term.

                        Any unused resource is not being utilized, making a server underutilized. That's the point we are making.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • bjB
                          bj
                          last edited by

                          I understand the point, and on that point you are absolutely correct. My question is in practice, are you actually trying to hit that 100% mark? It seems like the services would do well to have a little buffer room in there, considering spikes in load and all. But maybe we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm thing production web / database servers, where speed is a priority. Maybe you are considering a less sensitive work load?

                          wirestyle22W scottalanmillerS 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • wirestyle22W
                            wirestyle22 @bj
                            last edited by wirestyle22

                            @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                            I understand the point, and on that point you are absolutely correct. My question is in practice, are you actually trying to hit that 100% mark? It seems like the services would do well to have a little buffer room in there, considering spikes in load and all. But maybe we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm thing production web / database servers, where speed is a priority. Maybe you are considering a less sensitive work load?

                            There are reasons to not virtualize which @scottalanmiller has mentioned here, but they are very few and far between. Typically you are wasting more resources in a non-virtualized server than you are in a physical server. They can be telling the truth, but I seriously doubt they are.

                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @bj
                              last edited by

                              @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                              If you are hitting 100%, I presume you then back off a little? That seems... unhealthy in the long term.

                              If you MAINTAIN 100%, there is nothing to do but buy more gear!

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @bj
                                last edited by

                                @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                I understand the point, and on that point you are absolutely correct. My question is in practice, are you actually trying to hit that 100% mark?

                                For maximum throughput, yes you are. You only ever go below that point for latency reasons.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmillerS
                                  scottalanmiller @bj
                                  last edited by

                                  @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                  It seems like the services would do well to have a little buffer room in there, considering spikes in load and all.

                                  That's why you virtualize and consolidate. It helps to even out the spikes.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                                    last edited by

                                    @wirestyle22 said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                    @bj said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                    I understand the point, and on that point you are absolutely correct. My question is in practice, are you actually trying to hit that 100% mark? It seems like the services would do well to have a little buffer room in there, considering spikes in load and all. But maybe we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm thing production web / database servers, where speed is a priority. Maybe you are considering a less sensitive work load?

                                    There are reasons to not virtualize which @scottalanmiller has mentioned here, but they are very few and far between. Typically you are wasting more resources in a non-virtualized server than you are in a physical server. They can be telling the truth, but I seriously doubt they are.

                                    It's really not that you run servers at 100%. It's that you don't use excuses like being fully utilized until you are. Because it makes no sense. If your servers are sized to be maxed out, then consolidation would improve that.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • Emad RE
                                      Emad R @bj
                                      last edited by Emad R

                                      @bj

                                      The only thing I can think of you may not want to virtualize is VPN server.
                                      cause if you want to reboot the Host hypervisor for whatever reason (maybe shutdown by disaster and not choice), it is bit tricky to diagnose and running when you cant connect especially if your working from home.

                                      I reckon the AMD AM1 platform is an excellent platform for VPN server, especially if you get motherboard that gets charged using laptop charger (AM1H-ITX) you are free to experiment and deploy whatever VPN solution you want , or purchase a commercial VPN box.

                                      scottalanmillerS coliverC 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @Emad R
                                        last edited by

                                        @emad-r said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                        The only thing I can think of you may not want to virtualize is VPN server.

                                        That would be a reason to consider doing a one to one deployment (e.g. not consolidating) but not a reason to not virtualize.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @Emad R
                                          last edited by

                                          @emad-r said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                          ... it is bit tricky to diagnose and running when you cant connect especially if your working from home.

                                          That just exposes the fragility of LAN-based security.

                                          Emad RE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • coliverC
                                            coliver @Emad R
                                            last edited by

                                            @emad-r said in virtualize all the things... ?:

                                            @bj

                                            The only thing I can think of you may not want to virtualize is VPN server.
                                            cause if you want to reboot the Host hypervisor for whatever reason (maybe shutdown by disaster and not choice), it is bit tricky to diagnose and running when you cant connect especially if your working from home.

                                            I reckon the AMD AM1 platform is an excellent platform for VPN server, especially if you get motherboard that gets charged using laptop charger (AM1H-ITX) you are free to experiment and deploy whatever VPN solution you want , or purchase a commercial VPN box.

                                            That doesn't really make much sense either. If you can move the VM to another machine... if not you'd want to have tested this prior to going remote. In reality it seems very rare for a simple system, like a VPN, to go not come back up when a hypervisor reboots.

                                            Emad RE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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