@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

If I said "I've worked on a pizza box; that means a 1U server, right?"... that is not lying because I am supplying the name AND providing the reference that I am using. It might be the wrong use of the term, but I am providing the underlying definition. There is no deceit.

If they neglected to qualify the statement by verifying the definition that you are meaning, that still does not equal deception. Oversight and misunderstanding do not equal lies.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor

It's even got an official encyclopedia entry. This is NOT something one can just make up and hope no one notices.

Oh, and please don't confuse Wikipedia with an official encyclopedia.

It's the MOST official encyclopedia. Don't confuse "paid publications" with the world's most peer reviewed resource.

I'm out. It doesn't make you right, just not worth my time arguing about it.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor

It's even got an official encyclopedia entry. This is NOT something one can just make up and hope no one notices.

Oh, and please don't confuse Wikipedia with an official encyclopedia.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor

It's even got an official encyclopedia entry. This is NOT something one can just make up and hope no one notices.

Yup, and it references far more than just the Sparcstation, as well as making mention of 1U servers.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.

Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.

You are missing the issue. The issue is that the source of the new nickname is a misuse of the old one, not an introduction of a new one. That's specifically the problem. If the 1U server had been intentionally nicknames a pizzabox, instead of being mistaken for a Sparcserver, then that would apply.

You are missing the issue: it doesn't matter. It's a nickname and can apply to whatever you want to call by that name.

No, that's not how nicknames work. If your nickname is Chuck and the real Chuck is standing beside you and I confuse your nicknames, that doesn't imply that I am nicknaming you Chuck, it means I was confused as to who you were.

That's the issue. There is no real "Chuck", unless Chuck Norris is in the room, which is always something to consider...
Everyone could be nicknamed Chuck. It makes no difference.

Ah, that IS the issue. There IS a real Chuck. ALL names are simply just accepted references. Once you know that there is an accepted reference to something, and know that it has meaning to other people, misusing that is deception. It's no different than lying about their real name.

Then who is the "real" Chuck?

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

If I feel like calling a spoon a dinglehopper, even though Ariel already taught us that a fork is a dinglehopper, I'm not wrong. Neither of them is actually a dinglehopper. It's a nickname and has nothing to due with anything that actually means something.

You are talking about intent, which doesn't apply here as my point is specifically that there was no intentional re-use, only accidental misuse and repetition.

Nicknames are aliases and they do have definite meaning, though.

Yes, you nickname it a pizza box cause it's shaped like a pizza box in some way. I guess that can only apply to one item in the known universe, other than a box of pizza and should never be used to point to anything other than a Sparcstation.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

If I feel like calling a spoon a dinglehopper, even though Ariel already taught us that a fork is a dinglehopper, I'm not wrong. Neither of them is actually a dinglehopper. It's a nickname and has nothing to due with anything that actually means something.

You are talking about intent, which doesn't apply here as my point is specifically that there was no intentional re-use, only accidental misuse and repetition.

Nicknames are aliases and they do have definite meaning, though.

Unless you were standing there the very first time that it was supposedly used incorrectly, you don't know the intent. It could easily have been someone thinking a 1U server looks like a box of pizza. It's not codified.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.

Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.

You are missing the issue. The issue is that the source of the new nickname is a misuse of the old one, not an introduction of a new one. That's specifically the problem. If the 1U server had been intentionally nicknames a pizzabox, instead of being mistaken for a Sparcserver, then that would apply.

You are missing the issue: it doesn't matter. It's a nickname and can apply to whatever you want to call by that name.

No, that's not how nicknames work. If your nickname is Chuck and the real Chuck is standing beside you and I confuse your nicknames, that doesn't imply that I am nicknaming you Chuck, it means I was confused as to who you were.

That's the issue. There is no real "Chuck", unless Chuck Norris is in the room, which is always something to consider...
Everyone could be nicknamed Chuck. It makes no difference.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

For example, we all know that the Volkswagon Beetle is known as the "bug". If someone saw another car thinking it was the Beetle and called it a bug, they are not nicknaming that new car a bug as well, they are misidentifying it as a Beetle. That is the source of the issue here, we are talking about a mistake, not a new nickname. That the mistake is repeated a lot in SMB / SW circles is expected as tons of mistakes like mistaking what a Type 2 hypervisor is, or what product runs on bare metal, or what cloud is are all also similar mistakes that we correct. We dont just take someone misunderstanding something and call it a "new nickname."

Not necessarily true. A person could easily not be aware of that common usage and think some random car looks like a bug and call it such. They aren't "wrong". It's not a defined thing. Or, they could know about Beetles and still think some other car looks like a bug and call it that. That doesn't make them wrong.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.

Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.

You are missing the issue. The issue is that the source of the new nickname is a misuse of the old one, not an introduction of a new one. That's specifically the problem. If the 1U server had been intentionally nicknames a pizzabox, instead of being mistaken for a Sparcserver, then that would apply.

You are missing the issue: it doesn't matter. It's a nickname and can apply to whatever you want to call by that name. If I feel like calling a spoon a dinglehopper, even though Ariel already taught us that a fork is a dinglehopper, I'm not wrong. Neither of them is actually a dinglehopper. It's a nickname and has nothing to due with anything that actually means something. If I'm in an interview and you ask me a question as vague as that, you deserve whatever response you get. How many things are referred to as a "toaster"? But, there was this thing that was called a toaster years ago and if you don't know that then you're not as smart as me because I know what a "real" toaster is, even though none of them are actually toasters. I do know what a real toaster is, and they are not related, outside a mild resemblance of size and overall shape.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.

Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

Just got muted by someone on SW, but not during a discussion. Very odd. I've never been muted when not saying anything before.

Some times you just rub people the wrong way, try switching hands...

But who, and where?

I'd suggest start randomly rubbing people with your other hand and see if they perk up.... to many grumpy people to know who specifically muted you...

Was it @Dominica who muted you? Are you in the dog house?

Ok, so we have it clearly established here that @DustinB3403 thinks of Dominica as a grumpy person. That is all.

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.

Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.

You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.

I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.

Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.

Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.

@travisdh1 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@DustinB3403 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

Might as well have built the server using a pizza box...

I've seen that before...

Did someone say server pizza boxes?

I've literally seen someone ( @Mike-Ralston ) build a working computer in a pizza box after we ate the pizza.

@IRJ said in Blog Posts and Preferred Length:

@NetworkNerd said in Blog Posts and Preferred Length:

For those who blog, what criteria do you use to determine if your blog should be one giant post versus smaller, bite-sized posts? I have an idea in mind for my next blog post, but putting it out there as one post would make it pretty massive. I was just curious about guidelines others use to determine appropriate length so as not to overwhelm the readers with too much content in one post.

Any feedback is much appreciated.

Most readers have a one or two minute attention span UNLESS they are specifically googling the issue.

TL;DR.

@scottalanmiller said in Linux and Windows argument:

@dafyre said in Linux and Windows argument:

Why is it asking for iTunes if all you need to do is charge it?

I've never had that happen and we have three iPhones and five iPads and have for many years.

Same here. I've never seen anything like that. Also, who's to say that picture means that it is requiring iTunes to charge? Or how do you know what it means at all? It's a picture of a USB connector and iTunes... is the iPad connected to a computer and charging via a USB connection? It looks to me like iTunes believes there is a USB connection and wants to be opened for management of data.

@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

@BRRABill said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

All a function of time and need and money.

Only time and money, need in a business is always a function of money.

Yeah, anything a business is using to make business continuity related decisions that isn't a function of time and money is a blatant example of why the responsible parties shouldn't be in charge of making business decisions.