Non-IT News Thread



  • @Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @Pete-S said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @Obsolesce said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    If you are wondering what lengths the US is still going to deny testing and make sure that real numbers don't leak out...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52019509

    We know firsthand people who are sick and are being denied tests. Dallas has strict limits to the number of reportable a day, 500 max. Anything over that is the next day's problem, period. The numbers coming from the US are 100% what we test, in no way reflective of the infection rate.

    I think it's like that everywhere in every country now. If you think about it, nobody is equipped to test millions of people in a short period of time. And there's really no reason to unless you are in the risk group and/or showing symptoms.

    Correct. The article example is a failure, yes. She should have been able to get tested once symptomatic.

    But Scott's tin foil hat rant is just that. A rant.

    No country states more infected than tested positive. Most news quotes the medical professionals as assuming there are more, but they have no way to test, in almost all countries.

    It's also counterproductive to test.

    In the beginning when you have few cases it could be beneficial to test to be able to trace people who have been in contact with the patient. But that becomes a waste of resources once you already have lots of people that are infected and the virus is spreading. Then it's a matter of taking care of those in need. So you test those that have serious symptoms and need to go to the ER.

    There is simply no need to test those that have mild symptoms. And it's illogical. It's the really sick that needs health care. If you don't need health care, stay at home until you are feeling well again.

    I suppose I understand testing those with severe symptoms, but anything else, I agree why bother? It's like the normal flu - almost no one gets tested for that.

    Except it isn't. Covid-19 exacerbates issues you already have, and you're going to see lungs get destroyed far more than the flu as though the subject were a smoker. That means that you're more likely to get pneumonia, more likely to relapse in to older sicknesses and if you are a compromised individual, you will have problems. Unfortunately, your lackadaisical attitude is also part of the problem since you can be a silent carrier, never getting sick, but allowing one of those compromised or elderly people to become ill.

    Francisco Garcia was 21 and died from complications due to undiagnosed leukemia and covid-19. You may not even know you have a problem until you do.
    So, if you're not going to take this seriously, then you're also admitting how blase you are with other people's grandmothers, parents, cancer kids, and any person with a parent who decided not to vaccinate. Know anyone with diabetes? After covid-19, you have a 4% of visiting their grave inside of 2 weeks.

    To put that another way, if I gave you 100 skittles and only 4 were made with arsenic, would you still eat one? Your chances are good! Don't shake the bag, though. The poison might rub off to another, and then your chance is 8-12%.

    The flu does NOT spread like C19, so that same bag of skittles could be jostled around like David Beckham's nuts at a soccer game and you'd only see an additional 5 or 6 poison skittles, but that pouch o' c19 is going to be 100% poison, and all your green skittles with cancer are gone, the blue ones with diabetes are faded and some are missing, plus the red, vintage ones over 60 are probably dead because there was no one to help them.



  • @Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I suppose I understand testing those with severe symptoms, but anything else, I agree why bother? It's like the normal flu - almost no one gets tested for that.

    It's like you aren't even aware of anything going on. Holy cow.

    We need to be tested to know...

    1. Who has been infected.
    2. Who needs to be quaranteened.
    3. Where supplies are needed.
    4. How it is spreading.
    5. What to expect.
    6. How to get a cure.
    7. Who to warn.

    How the heck are you comparing this to the flu? WTF cares about the flu? No one, it doesn't spread like this, it doesn't kill like this. It's NOTHING like the normal flu.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    No country states more infected than tested positive. Most news quotes the medical professionals as assuming there are more, but they have no way to test, in almost all countries.

    No, they are running the tested numbers, medical professionals are saying the assumption is that the real numbers are 1,000% higher because we are testing almost no one.

    And the refusal to test was being reported long before they were short on tests.



  • @Pete-S said in Non-IT News Thread:

    It's also counterproductive to test.

    Zero tests, or open testing. Both have a purpose. The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening, that the infection rate is low, and make it seem like containment is working. So they say that only tested numbers are real, and only give out as many tests as they feel that they can admit to at the time.



  • @Pete-S said in Non-IT News Thread:

    There is simply no need to test those that have mild symptoms. And it's illogical. It's the really sick that needs health care. If you don't need health care, stay at home until you are feeling well again.

    If you don't test, you don't know to stay home. I've got a cousin quarantined away from his family leaving them struggling to take care of the kids, but fearful that he will infect them. But he can't get tested, even though he's extremely sick. So he can't get treated, and it is impacting his family.

    People who have mild symptoms, but don't know, will keep functioning. Someone has to grocery shop. Someone has to work. Without tests it's flippant to tell the whole world to self quarantine "just in case", because we'd all starve if everyone did that. No logistics, no farms, etc. We depend on people who think that are likely safe to keep working to keep the wheels turning. By testing, we can protect them from spreading it like wildfire.

    Testing matters, a lot. Like, a lot a lot.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.



  • @Pete-S said in Non-IT News Thread:

    So you test those that have serious symptoms and need to go to the ER.

    Why? Those seem like the least useful to test. They are known sick, known to be in need, and already being treated.

    It's the mild symptoms we need to know most. We need to know how to change behaviour to keep as many people functional as possible, while stopping the spread as much as possible.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.

    Excuse me yes, one certain elected official, and his favorite news station.

    But thinking people already know that is false bullshit.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    The problem with limited testing is that it is being used to claim that the spread isn't happening,

    No it is not.

    Um, try all news outlets, every government speach.

    Excuse me yes, one certain elected official, and his favorite news station.

    But thinking people already know that is false bullshit.

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.
    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    Stop conflating my statements.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    No one, anywhere, reports official numbers that are not "tested positive"



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.
    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    Stop conflating my statements.

    Here is an example. And boy have the numbers grown since I went to sleep. Now the NYT is pretty liberal. And they don't state that this is the real number, they state that this is tested. But when presented in this way, there's nothing but the tested number. Nothing mentions "testing withheld or unavailable, so not connected to real cases", it requires people to see this data and then research and put together that it doesn't mean what they think that it means. This is how television ads work... state something like what people want to hear, don't point out that they misunderstand, and they believe that they've been told something different than they have.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

    Even the URL says "cases" not "tests".



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    and only give out as many tests as they feel that they can admit to at the time.

    Prove it. Because all reports of the supply chain are that test are being made as fast as possible. Including testing for new version that provide faster results.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Even the WHO uses the US "official" test numbers. Not the doctor's believed numbers.

    50K infected in the US is the number that ever source repeats.

    No one, anywhere, reports official numbers that are not "tested positive"

    Exactly. That's my whole point. We aren't reporting what we believe the tests have told us, but only underlying data that, without knowing how the tests are being withheld, means literally nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    and only give out as many tests as they feel that they can admit to at the time.

    Prove it. Because all reports of the supply chain are that test are being made as fast as possible. Including testing for new version that provide faster results.

    It was announced here. Hard limits to testing, not based on available tests. They have a government issues limit to daily reports for the DFW.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    In Mexico their testing facilities were told that they couldn't administer the tests. And that's first had info from a testing facility because someone tried to go there and they had an announcement that they were forbidden to test for COVID.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.

    • You are a well known opponent to anything in the US medical industry.
    • You are well known to use broad strokes claims of everyone or everything that are not actual provable by documented reports.

    I have plenty of reason to assume so.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    without knowing how the tests are being withheld

    Take off the fucking tin foil hat already.

    There's no tinfoil hate. You know that the tests are withheld in some cases, that's fact. Dallas is an example, but everyone is reporting it everywhere. We know it first hand in at least Mexico, as well.

    And we know that that info isn't being reported along with the numbers. So we are dealing with simple fact. There's nothing to extrapolate.

    We are dealing with things like.... how bad is the situation? 5 Five? Five out of.... what? Ten? One hundred? No... just five. Sounds scary, but it means nothing.

    This is all conjecture. You have proven nothing.

    No, there's not a single piece of conjecture. Those are all the reported facts. Absolutely zero conjecture.

    Conjecture is saying it is conjecture. You are assuming I've changed what was reported without any reason to believe so.

    • You are a well known opponent to anything in the US medical industry.
    • You are well known to use broad strokes claims of everyone or everything that are not actual provable by documented reports.

    I have plenty of reason to assume so.

    Except neither of those things are relevant here. The first isn't related, at all. I'm not just talking about the US, and I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry. And the second is unrelated as there is no broad stroke, just a simple proved fact.

    The conjecture is entirely on your side. You are using broad strokes about me and trying to say that because I dislike X that facts not from me about Y and Z must be false. That's both ad hominem, and completely wrong on top.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm not just talking about the US

    ahem...

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Dallas is an example,



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry

    How is medical tests any but the medical industry?



  • @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    just a simple proved fact.

    You have proven nothing.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm certainly not talking about the medical industry

    How is medical tests any but the medical industry?

    Because who they can give them to is determined by the government right now. It is the government, not doctors, providing the full stop in Mexico, or the 500 city limit in Dallas. Doctors aren't involved in any way, other than administering the tests. Which we've already discussed. So why you are bringing up the doctors as if you think there is some big conspiracy I have no idea.

    I'm just talking the simple facts that we all know. You are running with that and trying to make something simple and factual into a big conspiracy.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    just a simple proved fact.

    You have proven nothing.

    In fact, quite the opposite.



  • @JaredBusch said in Non-IT News Thread:

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    I'm not just talking about the US

    ahem...

    @scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:

    Dallas is an example,

    I've given Mexico as an example multiple times. When someone says "not JUST talking about X" that means that they are talking about X plus other things.

    That you point out that I am talking about X, as if that's different than what I just said, makes absolutely no sense.


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