CloudatCost OpenDNS Issue

scottalanmiller

It is Dreamspark but that isn't how it was explained to me at the time.

Again, that's fine but not related to the situation.

thanksajdotcom

@thanksajdotcom said:

It is Dreamspark but that isn't how it was explained to me at the time.

Again, that's fine but not related to the situation.

Anyways, if Microsoft wants to come yell at me for it, I'll let them. Until then, it's staying as is.

scottalanmiller

You have a DC license, but even with Dreamspark you need to honor the license requirements, which is one license per CPU. How many CPUs are you running on in the cluster? You have no way to know. Dreamspark you get one copy only. Presumably they give you two CPUs with that. So.... let's say you have two. How short are you from having enough for the cluster?

We don't know, we only know it's a lot more than two. So, you don't have a valid license. Plain and simple. That it is Dreamspark, student use, activated or whatever are not in any way relevant here.

@scottalanmiller said:

@coliver said:

So you need to know the underlying hardware before you can make any licensing decisions in the public cloud?

FTFY: So you need to know the underlying hardware before you can make any licensing decisions

That it is public cloud has no bearing. Windows licensing requires you to know the hardware details. Plain and simple. That's how they license. This is no different than any Windows licensing, ever. It's just that when you do it in house, you know these details and don't think about how impossible it would be if they were hidden from you.

Heck you are even limited to 2 CPU sockets locally with standard.

scottalanmiller

@thanksajdotcom said:

Anyways, if Microsoft wants to come yell at me for it, I'll let them. Until then, it's staying as is.

Just so you understand, as a licensing issue goes, this is potentially millions of dollars of pirating, not just a copy of Windows. Yeah, they'd have to come after you. But all it requires is for them to audit CloudatCost, not you, and you are swept up in an audit of lots of other people. And you have no means of paying the "true up" fee. Nor do your parents. Nor does everyone you know combined.

thanksajdotcom

@scottalanmiller said:

You have a DC license, but even with Dreamspark you need to honor the license requirements, which is one license per CPU. How many CPUs are you running on in the cluster? You have no way to know. Dreamspark you get one copy only. Presumably they give you two CPUs with that. So.... let's say you have two. How short are you from having enough for the cluster?

We don't know, we only know it's a lot more than two. So, you don't have a valid license. Plain and simple. That it is Dreamspark, student use, activated or whatever are not in any way relevant here.

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing. I don't care if I'm violating a license agreement in this case. If this was a business, it'd be a totally difference scenario and I'd approach and handle it totally differently.

scottalanmiller

@thecreativeone91 said:

Heck you are even limited to 2 CPU sockets locally with standard.

Four.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2008_R2

thanksajdotcom

@scottalanmiller said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

Anyways, if Microsoft wants to come yell at me for it, I'll let them. Until then, it's staying as is.

Just so you understand, as a licensing issue goes, this is potentially millions of dollars of pirating, not just a copy of Windows. Yeah, they'd have to come after you. But all it requires is for them to audit CloudatCost, not you, and you are swept up in an audit of lots of other people. And you have no means of paying the "true up" fee. Nor do your parents. Nor does everyone you know combined.

And let's be realistic. The chances they'd pursue it and not just shut down the license is pretty low.

thanksajdotcom

And if that happens, oh well.

@coliver said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

It's a student copy that I got about 3 years ago. My understanding was the key was for life but only allowed to be used for educational purposes and not business purposes, which this falls under.

Is that a DreamSpark key? If it is then it is only valid for the duration that you are in college... I asked a Microsoft Licensing person that when I graduated from undergrad. Either way, from what @scottalanmiller is saying licensing for the public cloud is generally implausible since you don't know the underlying hardware.

That are permanent as far as I know but you still have to follow proper licensing conditions. You loose access to new software when you are no longer a student but can keep using the old. It just like technet was if you stopped your subscription you could keep using the old stuff.

thanksajdotcom

@thecreativeone91 said:

@coliver said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

It's a student copy that I got about 3 years ago. My understanding was the key was for life but only allowed to be used for educational purposes and not business purposes, which this falls under.

Is that a DreamSpark key? If it is then it is only valid for the duration that you are in college... I asked a Microsoft Licensing person that when I graduated from undergrad. Either way, from what @scottalanmiller is saying licensing for the public cloud is generally implausible since you don't know the underlying hardware.

That are permanent as far as I know but you still have to follow proper licensing conditions. You loose access to new software when you are no longer a student but can keep using the old. It just like technet was if you stopped your subscription you could keep using the old stuff.

That was always my understanding.

scottalanmiller

@thanksajdotcom said:

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing.

True, but you'd lose everything. And yes, this is a business environment because of the multi-user environment. It's a grey area as to if you are business or not since you are on a shared business use platform. Don't expect you claiming to not be business use will matter in court given the scenario.

If you were running this at home, that would be completely different, because you aren't sharing infrastructure with businesses.

@thanksajdotcom said:

@scottalanmiller said:

You have a DC license, but even with Dreamspark you need to honor the license requirements, which is one license per CPU. How many CPUs are you running on in the cluster? You have no way to know. Dreamspark you get one copy only. Presumably they give you two CPUs with that. So.... let's say you have two. How short are you from having enough for the cluster?

We don't know, we only know it's a lot more than two. So, you don't have a valid license. Plain and simple. That it is Dreamspark, student use, activated or whatever are not in any way relevant here.

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing. I don't care if I'm violating a license agreement in this case. If this was a business, it'd be a totally difference scenario and I'd approach and handle it totally differently.

Business or not licensing terms are terms. It's not legal to break them. And for that matter they can garnish your wages.

@thanksajdotcom said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

Anyways, if Microsoft wants to come yell at me for it, I'll let them. Until then, it's staying as is.

Just so you understand, as a licensing issue goes, this is potentially millions of dollars of pirating, not just a copy of Windows. Yeah, they'd have to come after you. But all it requires is for them to audit CloudatCost, not you, and you are swept up in an audit of lots of other people. And you have no means of paying the "true up" fee. Nor do your parents. Nor does everyone you know combined.

And let's be realistic. The chances they'd pursue it and not just shut down the license is pretty low.

Just because they aren't actively enforcing it to you doesn't make it legal.

thanksajdotcom

@thecreativeone91 said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

@scottalanmiller said:

You have a DC license, but even with Dreamspark you need to honor the license requirements, which is one license per CPU. How many CPUs are you running on in the cluster? You have no way to know. Dreamspark you get one copy only. Presumably they give you two CPUs with that. So.... let's say you have two. How short are you from having enough for the cluster?

We don't know, we only know it's a lot more than two. So, you don't have a valid license. Plain and simple. That it is Dreamspark, student use, activated or whatever are not in any way relevant here.

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing. I don't care if I'm violating a license agreement in this case. If this was a business, it'd be a totally difference scenario and I'd approach and handle it totally differently.

Business or not licensing terms are terms. It's not legal to break them. And for that matter they can garnish your wages.

Yeah, they'd be awfully disappointed.

coliver

@thecreativeone91 said:

@coliver said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

It's a student copy that I got about 3 years ago. My understanding was the key was for life but only allowed to be used for educational purposes and not business purposes, which this falls under.

Is that a DreamSpark key? If it is then it is only valid for the duration that you are in college... I asked a Microsoft Licensing person that when I graduated from undergrad. Either way, from what @scottalanmiller is saying licensing for the public cloud is generally implausible since you don't know the underlying hardware.

That are permanent as far as I know but you still have to follow proper licensing conditions. You loose access to new software when you are no longer a student but can keep using the old. It just like technet was if you stopped your subscription you could keep using the old stuff.

Yep you're right.

End of Student Status.
The DreamSpark Direct Subscription is a special offering for students. Once you no longer qualify for the DreamSpark Direct
Subscription (due to graduation or otherwise no longer meeting the definition of "you" above), your DreamSpark Direct Subscription will terminate; however, you may continue to use the software you obtained prior to termination of your student status subject to the terms of this agreement.

Sorry it was explained incorrectly to me. Good to know.

thanksajdotcom

@thecreativeone91 said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

Anyways, if Microsoft wants to come yell at me for it, I'll let them. Until then, it's staying as is.

Just so you understand, as a licensing issue goes, this is potentially millions of dollars of pirating, not just a copy of Windows. Yeah, they'd have to come after you. But all it requires is for them to audit CloudatCost, not you, and you are swept up in an audit of lots of other people. And you have no means of paying the "true up" fee. Nor do your parents. Nor does everyone you know combined.

And let's be realistic. The chances they'd pursue it and not just shut down the license is pretty low.

Just because they aren't actively enforcing it to you doesn't make it legal.

Again, while I care, I don't. It's not hurting anyone. Argue that all you want, but it's true.

scottalanmiller

@thecreativeone91 said:

Business or not licensing terms are terms. It's not legal to break them. And for that matter they can garnish your wages.

Forever.

@scottalanmiller said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing.

True, but you'd lose everything. And yes, this is a business environment because of the multi-user environment. It's a grey area as to if you are business or not since you are on a shared business use platform. Don't expect you claiming to not be business use will matter in court given the scenario.

If you were running this at home, that would be completely different, because you aren't sharing infrastructure with businesses.

I hear people say this all the time. I'm Not using it 'for profit' so they don't care if I break the terms, pirate. etc. Yes they do. You are still using the product.

Try going into walmart and stealing movies and walking out saying "It's okay I'm not using it for profit' - That's the flawed logic you are using.

scottalanmiller

@thecreativeone91 said:

@scottalanmiller said:

@thanksajdotcom said:

I not in a business environment. Even if MS sued me, they'd get nothing.

True, but you'd lose everything. And yes, this is a business environment because of the multi-user environment. It's a grey area as to if you are business or not since you are on a shared business use platform. Don't expect you claiming to not be business use will matter in court given the scenario.

If you were running this at home, that would be completely different, because you aren't sharing infrastructure with businesses.

I hear people say this all the time. I'm Not using it 'for profit' so they don't care if I break the terms, pirate. etc. Yes they do. You are still using the product.

Try going into walmart and stealing movies and walking out saying "It's okay I'm not using it for profit' - That's the flawed logic you are using.

And, in the SMB market, the real money is not made by suing businesses. It is made by suing businesses, piercing the corporate veil and taking the owners for all that they are worth - which is where the real money is often hiding. In this case, they get to go straight for you. Because the can garnish your wages for life, it's still very worth it to them. They won't put you in jail, that gets them nothing. They want the money.