squid service cannot be started !!!!!
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@Dashrender said:
@thanksaj said:
@Dashrender said:
just for knowledge sake, you also rarely use Mr with someone's first name. Instead it would be Mr Miller, or the whole name - Mr Scott Miller ( Mr Scott Allen Miller).
Now, all of this said - some people have their own schtick (way of being), so you could decide that you always want to refer to people as Mr Firstname, So.... Mr Scott, Mr Dash, Mr AJ, etc.
Alan
I agree also that you don't normally do Mr. FirstName. However, that's common to see in a lot of non-native English speakers. No offense.
I wonder, is that due to the fact that in some cultures they last name is first, therefore they would still be following the convention Mr Lastname?
No, generally the reason is that you don't use someone's first name unless you are friends with them. Mr is used in formal situations, so combined Mr and a first name is an oxymoron. The last name, so Mr. Stringham, is considered a term of respect. I really don't know what to make of Mr. A.J. It's like someone is trying to say their my friend but be very formal and stand-offish about it.
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@thanksaj said:
No, generally the reason is that you don't use someone's first name unless you are friends with them. Mr is used in formal situations, so combined Mr and a first name is an oxymoron.
Not exactly an oxymoron. It doesn't actually contradict anything. It's just a mismatched use of formality.
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@Dashrender said:
I wonder, is that due to the fact that in some cultures they last name is first, therefore they would still be following the convention Mr Lastname?
I believe that this is true.
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@thanksaj said:
Mr is used in formal situations, so combined Mr and a first name is an oxymoron. The last name, so Mr. Stringham, is considered a term of respect. I really don't know what to make of Mr. A.J. It's like someone is trying to say their my friend but be very formal and stand-offish about it.
My suggestion to use MR AJ would really only apply to either a distinct class difference, I've had teachers do this before, or extremely personal, i.e. really good friends.
If it was used outside these two cases I could see the interpretation as stand-offish.
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@Dashrender said:
@thanksaj said:
Mr is used in formal situations, so combined Mr and a first name is an oxymoron. The last name, so Mr. Stringham, is considered a term of respect. I really don't know what to make of Mr. A.J. It's like someone is trying to say their my friend but be very formal and stand-offish about it.
My suggestion to use MR AJ would really only apply to either a distinct class difference, I've had teachers do this before, or extremely personal, i.e. really good friends.
If it was used outside these two cases I could see the interpretation as stand-offish.
Yeah. I agree with that.
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One of my best friends I call sir. However, the only other people in the world I call sir are people on the other end of the line of support calls. With my best friend, he calls EVERYONE Sir, and with him, it's both a term of respect and endearment. So when I call him Sir, it's just me saying 'hey best bud'. My father got upset that I'd call my friend Sir all the time but that I never called him (my dad) sir. Not that he really wanted me to, but he was kind of offended. He didn't understand it wasn't me being respectful as much as endearing. That's the only other case I can think of as an exception.
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I don't think of "sir" as respectful, I find it just formal. They don't use it in the south for respect, it's just formality.
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@thanksaj was your dad in the military?
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@scottalanmiller said:
I don't think of "sir" as respectful, I find it just formal. They don't use it in the south for respect, it's just formality.
I guess I can see why you'd say that.
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i think we should change the title of this topic to be : when to and when not to use Mr
what do you think guys ?? -
LOL. I think the easiest guide for those outside the US or other primarily English speaking countries is... avoid Mr. or Sir. They are polite and not incorrect, but they are things that native speakers never use in normal conversation. They are too formal. Nothing wrong with them, but it is a formality that you don't need. IT Peers in the office would never be so formal with each other, for example. And a community like this is even less formal.
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@scottalanmiller said:
LOL. I think the easiest guide for those outside the US or other primarily English speaking countries is... avoid Mr. or Sir. They are polite and not incorrect, but they are things that native speakers never use in normal conversation. They are too formal. Nothing wrong with them, but it is a formality that you don't need. IT Peers in the office would never be so formal with each other, for example. And a community like this is even less formal.
Very well said. You won't offend anyone using them, but everyone will know you aren't a native English speaker.
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thanks for these informations
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@thanksaj said:
Very well said. You won't offend anyone using them, but everyone will know you aren't a native English speaker.
Yes, it's one of the ways that native English speakers can tell instantly that someone is non-native. I wonder if using them is taught or if it is a natural translation from local speech patterns. My guess is that it is taught. One of the dangers of having non-English speakers teaching English.
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@scottalanmiller said:
LOL. I think the easiest guide for those outside the US or other primarily English speaking countries is... avoid Mr. or Sir. They are polite and not incorrect, but they are things that native speakers never use in normal conversation. They are too formal. Nothing wrong with them, but it is a formality that you don't need. IT Peers in the office would never be so formal with each other, for example. And a community like this is even less formal.
You obviously weren't raised in the South. Generally speaking unless you are given permission by that person to use their first name you don't.... ever. I have a fond memory of being smacked upside the head by a large woman in a McDonalds once because I didn't use the correct formality with an adult. It may be a thing only children do but it has really stuck with me....
Of course when I moved north my parents went to a parent/teacher conference about the unnecessary use of formality in the classroom, the teacher thought I was being disruptive and patronizing her.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
LOL. I think the easiest guide for those outside the US or other primarily English speaking countries is... avoid Mr. or Sir. They are polite and not incorrect, but they are things that native speakers never use in normal conversation. They are too formal. Nothing wrong with them, but it is a formality that you don't need. IT Peers in the office would never be so formal with each other, for example. And a community like this is even less formal.
You obviously weren't raised in the South. Generally speaking unless you are given permission by that person to use their first name you don't.... ever. I have a fond memory of being smacked upside the head by a large woman in a McDonalds once because I didn't use the correct formality with an adult. It may be a thing only children do but it has really stuck with me....
Of course when I moved north my parents went to a parent/teacher conference about the unnecessary use of formality in the classroom, the teacher thought I was being disruptive and patronizing her.
That's the very definition of formality. In the north it's seen as either southerns acting like inferiors, which we find odd, or, more commonly, since it is so formal and unwarranted it comes across as mocking. But even southerners never use it when talking in forums, for example. It's use to show someone mock respect, like when talking to a cashier at McDonald's. If southerns use it in a business setting, it puts them at a natural disadvantage. Having worked in the south for a lot of my career, though, I've never heard it used in professional settings, only in transactions like gas stations and fast food. Or when parents demand it from children because they think that enforced formality is what respect is.
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It's like the military. Soldiers don't respect their trainers. That's why the trainers have to require them to say sir. It's not a sign of respect because it isn't voluntary. It's a combination of enforced formality or just mocking.
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@scottalanmiller Understood... it is a really hard habit that I have yet to break...
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller Understood... it is a really hard habit that I have yet to break...
I'm sure, growing up having to say that all of the time is tough. It's the linguistic equivalent to being hit in the hand for writing left handed (I know a guy who was crippled in his left hand because some nuns brutalized him to the point of disability for being left handed.) It's one of the reasons that we home school - because we live in the south sometimes and we don't want our kids growing up in that fake respect environment. It doesn't happen in adult interactions that we see anymore, but in the schools it carries on because there isn't the good oversight that there should be. It's a pretty minor reason, but a reason that we have considered.
