CAL Counting
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Trying to figure our how many CAL's i need for a system. Its has 5 thin clients so I know I will need 5 device cals. We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Bu the systems has 20 virtual servers total and more thin clients and RDS sessions will be added over time. But for the existing 20 virtual servers that almost all work together do I need any CAls there? I assume i do because i get no cal warnings when doing RDP session from one VM to another. I know that can be extended and bypassed but for correct licensing i am trying to determine my needs for a CAL purchase.
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
Its has 5 thin clients so I know I will need 5 device cals.
If those are the ONLY devices that will EVER connect, then yes. But I've never yet encountered a real world system where device CALs were reasonably the option.
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
Bu the systems has 20 virtual servers total and more thin clients and RDS sessions will be added over time. But for the existing 20 virtual servers that almost all work together do I need any CAls there?
You have twenty RDS servers, but only 5 (+5 redundant) stations that can access them?
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
I know that can be extended and bypassed but for correct licensing i am trying to determine my needs for a CAL purchase.
In all environments that I know, it's better to do user CALs. They are far easier to manage so even if the cost is only "close" it is better. RDS Device CALs do exist for a reason, but it is a super niche use case and crazy hard to manage.
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
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@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
Its has 5 thin clients so I know I will need 5 device cals.
If those are the ONLY devices that will EVER connect, then yes. But I've never yet encountered a real world system where device CALs were reasonably the option.
Agreed - I've never seen this in practice - it's likely better to just forget about device CALs.
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@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
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@dashrender the organization already has user CAL's because all employees have email and can log in to the local computers, etc.
Do need user CAL's for every employee on every system or does 1 user CAL cover an employee on any and all systems corporation-wide?
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender the organization already has user CAL's because all employees have email and can log in to the local computers, etc.
Do need user CAL's for every employee on every system or does 1 user CAL cover an employee on any and all systems corporation-wide?
One Windows Server User CAL covers one employee company wide.
You will also need a one Windows RDS User CAL for each user connecting to all RDS servers company wide. -
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
Had this discussion a few years ago. From my understanding, RDS has a "pool" that grabs a license from the pool for each logged in user. It will re-up every 90 days each time the user logs in. So if you have multiple users that only log in once every 89 days, that can waste a ton of licenses, thus having to purchase more than actually is required.
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@pmoncho These will be device RDS CAL's and pretty much the same account logging in all the time. But we may have technicians from time to time login and open an additional session so we may need extras to cover that.
I know by default it says they return to the pool after 89 days but I am curious to see if there is a way to have it return to the pool in a much shorter amount of time.
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
But we may have technicians from time to time login and open an additional session so we may need extras to cover that.
Will these technicians be logging in from the already licensed devices? Or from elsewhere?
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
I know by default it says they return to the pool after 89 days but I am curious to see if there is a way to have it return to the pool in a much shorter amount of time.
There isn't that I'm aware of - that's the entire point.
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@jasgot said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
But we may have technicians from time to time login and open an additional session so we may need extras to cover that.
Will these technicians be logging in from the already licensed devices? Or from elsewhere?
exactly - if they are, then the techs will be covered by your device licenses - if not, you'll need another device license for every machine they will attempt to log in from.
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@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
Had this discussion a few years ago. From my understanding, RDS has a "pool" that grabs a license from the pool for each logged in user. It will re-up every 90 days each time the user logs in. So if you have multiple users that only log in once every 89 days, that can waste a ton of licenses, thus having to purchase more than actually is required.
Yeah, all that sounds familar - but don't new (users who haven't tried in the last 89 days) get a 90 temp license? So I would think/hope you wouldn't run afoul of the single off man off once in a while.
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@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
Had this discussion a few years ago. From my understanding, RDS has a "pool" that grabs a license from the pool for each logged in user. It will re-up every 90 days each time the user logs in. So if you have multiple users that only log in once every 89 days, that can waste a ton of licenses, thus having to purchase more than actually is required.
Yeah, all that sounds familar - but don't new (users who haven't tried in the last 89 days) get a 90 temp license? So I would think/hope you wouldn't run afoul of the single off man off once in a while.
Found this:
It looks like the temp license is only available in Device mode.
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@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
Had this discussion a few years ago. From my understanding, RDS has a "pool" that grabs a license from the pool for each logged in user. It will re-up every 90 days each time the user logs in. So if you have multiple users that only log in once every 89 days, that can waste a ton of licenses, thus having to purchase more than actually is required.
Yeah, all that sounds familar - but don't new (users who haven't tried in the last 89 days) get a 90 temp license? So I would think/hope you wouldn't run afoul of the single off man off once in a while.
Found this:
It looks like the temp license is only available in Device mode.
From the site you linked:
There is a licensing grace period of 120 Days during which no license server is required.
in combination with
Temporary RDS CALs are not available.
tells me each user likely gets a single 120 day grace, after which they will have to have a license.
this also seems newer than I recall.
RDS CALs are assigned to a user in Active Directory.
Does this mean it's not longer concurrent users? Once an RDS license is assigned, it's there for life? what happens when that user leaves the company?
And then we toss this on top of the pile.
When you use the Per User model, licensing is not enforced and each user is granted a license to connect to an RD Session Host from any number of devices. The license server issues licenses from the available RDS CAL pool or the Over-Used RDS CAL pool. It's your responsibility to ensure that all of your users have a valid license and zero Over-Used CALs—otherwise, you're in violation of the Remote Desktop Services license terms.
So it's basically back on you to track your licenses.
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@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@pmoncho said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
Had this discussion a few years ago. From my understanding, RDS has a "pool" that grabs a license from the pool for each logged in user. It will re-up every 90 days each time the user logs in. So if you have multiple users that only log in once every 89 days, that can waste a ton of licenses, thus having to purchase more than actually is required.
Yeah, all that sounds familar - but don't new (users who haven't tried in the last 89 days) get a 90 temp license? So I would think/hope you wouldn't run afoul of the single off man off once in a while.
Found this:
It looks like the temp license is only available in Device mode.
From the site you linked:
There is a licensing grace period of 120 Days during which no license server is required.
in combination with
Temporary RDS CALs are not available.
tells me each user likely gets a single 120 day grace, after which they will have to have a license.
this also seems newer than I recall.
RDS CALs are assigned to a user in Active Directory.
Does this mean it's not longer concurrent users? Once an RDS license is assigned, it's there for life? what happens when that user leaves the company?
And then we toss this on top of the pile.
I am unable to find anything specific from M$ but only the talk of others in forums stating that the license will go back into the pool after 90 days of no use.
So basically, we don't know. I have yet to run into this issue so I don't have first hand experience.
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@dashrender said in CAL Counting:
@scottalanmiller said in CAL Counting:
@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
We will be using terminal services in a redundant setup so at least 10 RDS cals
Terminal SERVICES doesn't require more CALs when redundancy. But if you mean your TERMINALS (the thin clients) will be redundant, then it will.
One CAL gives you access to unlimited RDS servers.
RDS CALs are also concurrent, aren't they? Or did they change that?
No, nothing in the WIndows universe is concurrent licensing.
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@eleceng said in CAL Counting:
@dashrender the organization already has user CAL's because all employees have email and can log in to the local computers, etc.
Do need user CAL's for every employee on every system or does 1 user CAL cover an employee on any and all systems corporation-wide?
RDS CALs are not used for any of that. I think you are thinking of Server CALs which is another topic.
