HA With switches
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@hobbit666 said in HA With switches:
Where would you place Ubiquity stuff? In the SMB, Enterprise or somewhere in the middle?
Well better than Cisco, certainly!
UBNT's thing is really making enterprise gear with an SMB focus. Their stuff is designed heavily for SMB use, by way of just the physical features and sizes that they offer. But their quality and design is very enterprise.
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@hobbit666 said in HA With switches:
As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear
As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.
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@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco
Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
Cisco bought them in 2003. -
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@hobbit666 said in HA With switches:
As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear
As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.
I've dealt with too much bad Netgear. I know you always like them, but I've had crap luck with them over the years.
Today, I would still use Ubiquiti for core.
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@JaredBusch said in HA With switches:
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco
Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
Cisco bought them in 2003.As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.
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@hobbit666 said in HA With switches:
@PhlipElder don't know why but never thought Netgear as "Enterprise" grade gear. Yeah fine for a office or shop but not backbone.
Since they are always mentioned I thought Ubiquiti but not sure they will give the required ports as they only have 2 10g SPF+ ports and I'll need 4 at the core.
Have looked at Dell N4000 series but they seem ££££
We've been running NETGEAR 10GbE in disaggregate cluster settings for five or six years now. For the most part, they've been rock solid. The only issue we've experienced with them is the need to flash firmware when switching a shared 10GbE RJ45/SFP+ port from one to the other.
For the price, they are a great place to start.
And again, no way we'd touch Ubiquiti for anything more than a managed switch.
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@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@JaredBusch said in HA With switches:
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco
Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
Cisco bought them in 2003.As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.
The Cisco Small Business Pro series edge (NSA 510/520 series with and without WiFi) and their SG300/SG500 series switches were the result of the Linksys purchase engineering combination.
We've deployed a lot of the SG500x series stackable switches with a few weird behaviours depending on how they are set up. Many of them fronted the disaggregate clusters mentioned above.
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@JaredBusch said in HA With switches:
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@hobbit666 said in HA With switches:
As mentioned I was going to use them coming off the core switches, or should I just stick with what I know. Netgear
As per their names, Ubiquiti really only focuses on Edge devices. Netgear makes amazing core stuff (and edge.) Netgear has a really broad line, too.
I've dealt with too much bad Netgear. I know you always like them, but I've had crap luck with them over the years.
Today, I would still use Ubiquiti for core.
Heh, and our experience with Ubiquiti is the same: Crap. Especially when we've got a lot of VLAN routing to do at the port level. We've seen them take a knipsch and go into lockdown mode where no packets flow on a specific VLAN.
I do not like Ubiquiti Sam I Am, Sam I Am, I do not like Ubiquiti Sam I Am.
As far as NETGEAR goes, we avoid anything entry/consumer/pro-sumer. We've only deployed their 10GbE switches and have had good success with them.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
As far as NETGEAR goes, we avoid anything entry/consumer/pro-sumer. We've only deployed their 10GbE switches and have had good success with them.
That gets a lot of people, I think. They use consumer Netgear stuff and get questionable results. But I've seen only good results from their more high end gear.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@JaredBusch said in HA With switches:
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
The maker of Linksys (traditionally?) Cisco
Dude, Cisco sold off Linksys in 2013. Pay attention.
Cisco bought them in 2003.As a brand, but they kept a lot of the products in their routing, switching, and VoIP lines. They sold the name, but they kept the products. So old Linksys is now Cisco proper.
The Cisco Small Business Pro series edge (NSA 510/520 series with and without WiFi) and their SG300/SG500 series switches were the result of the Linksys purchase engineering combination.
We've deployed a lot of the SG500x series stackable switches with a few weird behaviours depending on how they are set up. Many of them fronted the disaggregate clusters mentioned above.
Yeah, we see those "Cisco rebranded Linksys" units all over the place. They are awful.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
MSX1012X
We have Cisco Sg500 500 now. We are upgrading every cabinet link to SM fiber, so we'll need more SFP.
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@scottalanmiller When you say "Their High End Gear" what would that be?
Simply click the "Business" link on their website or a specific range?
I've been looking at the M7100 for core and maybe XS724EM/XS728T for edgeHonestly i'd be happy with either Netgear (also been a fan and not see much issues, we have 2 in the core setup now)
or anything else people think are reliable. -
@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
As far as NETGEAR goes, we avoid anything entry/consumer/pro-sumer. We've only deployed their 10GbE switches and have had good success with them.
That gets a lot of people, I think. They use consumer Netgear stuff and get questionable results. But I've seen only good results from their more high end gear.
We live in an era where we get what we pay for. Historically, one could count on purchasing a solid product from pretty much all top tier vendors at all levels.
That is no longer the case.
Example: Dell's included warranty. Ever dealt with the "must troubleshoot/diagnose via phone support" support folks before. Ugh, the pain.
ProSupport with NA techs and at least Next Business Day replacement is worth every penny.Example: There's a very important reason why Ubiquiti's 10GbE switch is sub $1K while a purebred Cisco is orders of magnitude above that in cost. Engineering. NETGEAR catches the middle-lower of the pack in the XS716T series but still has quality engineering involved on both the hardware and software side.
Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here? I'm sufficiently new enough on this forum to excuse it eh?
I remember standing at the back of the room at Microsoft a number of years ago having the AMG/M versus CTS-V "discussion" with some Blue Badges, my conclusion being CTS-V all the way, though an argument against was exactly this reasoning. A 6-Speed CTS-V Supercharged Wagon is still one of those bucket list items for me. The CTS series is made by Cadillac.
Looking back to the Cisco purchase of Linksys it was a wise move. They picked up a solid crew of folks to produce a pretty good line of products aimed at a huge market: SMB
The major "improvement" was a GUI and the introduction of enterprise grade features in a switch and edge setup destined for that market. The early rebranded Linksys stuff was still theirs and still sucked IMNSHO. But, as mentioned, the Small Business Pro product lines have been excellent though not without a few issues.
For gits and shiggles: https://youtu.be/8SE4YfmlckE <-- Still one of the best produced auto model introduction commercials I've ever seen.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
There's a very important reason why Ubiquiti's 10GbE switch is sub $1K while a purebred Cisco is orders of magnitude above that in cost. Engineering.
Or Marketing and Name Recognition.
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Anybody has experience with ONIE/WhiteLabel switches? Dell seems committed to it...
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@coliver said in HA With switches:
@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
There's a very important reason why Ubiquiti's 10GbE switch is sub $1K while a purebred Cisco is orders of magnitude above that in cost. Engineering.
Or Marketing and Name Recognition.
Point taken. Indeed, there's a huge volume of dollars and folks involved on that side.
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@Francesco-Provino said in HA With switches:
Anybody has experience with ONIE/WhiteLabel switches? Dell seems committed to it...
I was in San Jose a couple of weeks ago at the invitation of QCT for their one day product showcase event.
They are invested pretty heavily with Broadcom in the ONIE market.
We've deployed a lot of their storage products in cluster settings. They have been a solid go-to for shared SAS settings and soon QCT purpose-built Storage Spaces Direct nodes. They are worth the look.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
We live in an era where we get what we pay for.
I've found this to be about the polar opposite of reality. Look at operating systems, the free ones are best, the paid ones are worst - not that Windows is "bad", it's just not up to par with paid options, all OSes are pretty decent today, but when the free ones do the best.... Look at networking hardware, the highest cost is Cisco which is often the worst vendor, and the cheapest reasonable ones are often the best. The higher performance processors aren't the most expensive. And on, and on.
I'd say it's more often inverted... you get the opposite of what you pay for.
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@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
Example: There's a very important reason why Ubiquiti's 10GbE switch is sub $1K while a purebred Cisco is orders of magnitude above that in cost. Engineering.
I'm confused, Cisco engineering is specifically a reason I don't want them in my shops. Even casual in person conversations with Cisco engineering is embarrassing. Cisco gear is expensive because they target the "stupid rich" Adams quartile. They put a high price on garbage to specific target people who believe that price, not engineering, defines quality.
None of Cisco's cost comes from engineering, it's just mark up.
That's why even if they were the same price, I'd take Ubiquiti every time. Cisco is the ultimate example of how you don't get what you pay for. That, and Windows, are the two examples we use most about how you can't use pricing as a guide to quality because it is never so dramatically inverted.
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@scottalanmiller said in HA With switches:
@PhlipElder said in HA With switches:
We live in an era where we get what we pay for.
I've found this to be about the polar opposite of reality. Look at operating systems, the free ones are best, the paid ones are worst - not that Windows is "bad", it's just not up to par with paid options, all OSes are pretty decent today, but when the free ones do the best.... Look at networking hardware, the highest cost is Cisco which is often the worst vendor, and the cheapest reasonable ones are often the best. The higher performance processors aren't the most expensive. And on, and on.
I'd say it's more often inverted... you get the opposite of what you pay for.
There's always going to be exceptions to any rule.
We work with ISPs that deploy Catalyst switches into our client sites. There's one site where the WiFi ISP connection piggybacks off of another ISP's system. The other ISP has an ancient Catalyst that keeps locking up every once in a while. That's one example of an issue with a Cisco product yet it can't be faulted as the switch is probably way more than ten years old. We've got fibre and coax going into that business park so we'll be parking that ISP connection into a secondary role at some point so we've not really pursued a switch change with them yet ...
For the most part though, we rarely encounter issues with Catalyst switches.
But, to back up what is being said the last two hotels in different cities I've stayed in that are the same hotel chain using Cisco Meraki WiFi have been nothing but grief. Whether that particular chain has chosen to leave the on-premises WiFi die or the folks supporting it are not doing a great job or the product is just plain crap is left to be said.
