What Makes Something An Appliance
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Yeah, so you are thinking that maybe appliance is a "state"? Like....
To me in IT, this server is a server. But to you in operations, this server is an appliance?
Like a Scale Cluster is a server to the Scale team, but an appliance to the customer. Whereas the FreePBX VM is a server to me, but an appliance to the operations team? It's a state based on perspective?
Yes, exactly. Perspective makes a big difference. And so does one's permissions or abilities on the server. So I think it's a combination of perspective and what the end-user can do with it... whether the end-user is an IT admin, or operations user.
As with adjectives, they change in the same way for a specific thing... depending on ones perspective and abilities.
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I can get on board with that. Because under the hood, I think effectively nothing is an appliance anywhere. I mean somewhere there is actually something that must be, I just have no idea what it actually is.
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Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
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I think marketing has a lot to do with the definition. An appliance (to me) is a branded product that comes to the consumer in a box with a pretty picture and a logo on it. You pull it out, plug it in, and have minimal configuration (that you can get support to help you with) to integrate it into your network. You update it with the updates the manufacturer grants you, and you can configure what the manufacturer allows you access to.
I would absolutely put a Windows PC in this category. Remember when some PC's used to come with the "break this seal and void the warranty" sticker on the back of the case? The point is that it's not intended to be a user-serviced item. To me, that's the defining characteristic.
If you want to compare it to cars, I would say that adding seat covers and custom rims to your new factory-original car doesn't really count as "modified". Swap the motor out, put a turbo and an intercooler on it, aftermarket, and now you've properly modded your car.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
I can get on board with that. Because under the hood, I think effectively nothing is an appliance anywhere. I mean somewhere there is actually something that must be, I just have no idea what it actually is.
I agree.
But I'm still not at a comfortable spot with this. I could easily do away with the word "appliance", and say server instead. What difference does it make whether I say 'KACE server' or 'KACE appliance'? What about "PBX appliance" or "PBX server"? Does it tell you anything different? Or does it designate a taste, or a perspective... like an adjective would?
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@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
Kind of. But what about after you start using it?
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@Tim_G said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
I can get on board with that. Because under the hood, I think effectively nothing is an appliance anywhere. I mean somewhere there is actually something that must be, I just have no idea what it actually is.
I agree.
But I'm still not at a comfortable spot with this. I could easily do away with the word "appliance", and say server instead. What difference does it make whether I say 'KACE server' or 'KACE appliance'? What about "PBX appliance" or "PBX server"? Does it tell you anything different? Or does it designate a taste, or a perspective... like an adjective would?
I would like it too. An example from the other thread.... I like appliance when used with a Mitel PBX but not with FreePBX. One is very packaged and I can't control it (without totally killing what makes it what it is) whereas the other is totally designed for me to... use however I see fit.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
Kind of. But what about after you start using it?
Depends if you start messing with it in ways not intended by its manufacturer...
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@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
I would absolutely put a Windows PC in this category. Remember when some PC's used to come with the "break this seal and void the warranty" sticker on the back of the case? The point is that it's not intended to be a user-serviced item. To me, that's the defining characteristic.
What about a Windows Server?
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Then embedded devices would be consider an appliance?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
I would absolutely put a Windows PC in this category. Remember when some PC's used to come with the "break this seal and void the warranty" sticker on the back of the case? The point is that it's not intended to be a user-serviced item. To me, that's the defining characteristic.
What about a Windows Server?
Does it come as a fully-functioning unit that you just power up and do minimal configuration to? If so, I would have to say yes.
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@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
Kind of. But what about after you start using it?
Depends if you start messing with it in ways not intended by its manufacturer...
That's what we ran into earlier... what constitutes the manufacturer? The one that made the real system, or the one that tacked some stuff onto it?
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@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Then embedded devices would be consider an appliance?
Like a thermostat? I'd say yes. But not many embedded IT devices that we talk about in that way. What kind of embedded device are you picturing?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
Kind of. But what about after you start using it?
Depends if you start messing with it in ways not intended by its manufacturer...
That's what we ran into earlier... what constitutes the manufacturer? The one that made the real system, or the one that tacked some stuff onto it?
Now I think you're splitting hairs to be overly myopic. Whose logo is on the product you bought? That's the manufacturer.
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An appliance ALWAYS acts as a server. You can debate whatever else you want, but what everyone considers as an appliance functions as a server.
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ATMs, cell phones, printers, thermostats, calculators, and videogame consoles.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@Tim_G said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
I can get on board with that. Because under the hood, I think effectively nothing is an appliance anywhere. I mean somewhere there is actually something that must be, I just have no idea what it actually is.
I agree.
But I'm still not at a comfortable spot with this. I could easily do away with the word "appliance", and say server instead. What difference does it make whether I say 'KACE server' or 'KACE appliance'? What about "PBX appliance" or "PBX server"? Does it tell you anything different? Or does it designate a taste, or a perspective... like an adjective would?
I would like it too. An example from the other thread.... I like appliance when used with a Mitel PBX but not with FreePBX. One is very packaged and I can't control it (without totally killing what makes it what it is) whereas the other is totally designed for me to... use however I see fit.
Then I think things are starting to veer down a different path, away from what appliance means, moving towards a marketing viewpoint.
For example... if you give someone new slow-cooker. That's all dandy, you've just given someone a slow-cooker. But if you give it to them wrapped in wrapping paper, it's now a gift or present.
So I think it still stands better as an adjective. You are still receiving a Mitel PBX server. That's exactly what it is. The think that makes you want to call it an appliance, is how it's presented. AKA marketing.
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So maybe a server is a piece of the appliance. Such as a light. It can be built into a car or it can suffice on its own.
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@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
ATMs, cell phones, printers, thermostats, calculators, and videogame consoles.
Well, I can see those things being considered that, but a totally different type that we are discussing here. Or that we have been discussing. But maybe we just overlooked them?
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@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@art_of_shred said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@scottalanmiller said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
@black3dynamite said in What Makes Something An Appliance:
Appliance more of a pre-configured device?
Kind of. But what about after you start using it?
Depends if you start messing with it in ways not intended by its manufacturer...
That's what we ran into earlier... what constitutes the manufacturer? The one that made the real system, or the one that tacked some stuff onto it?
Now I think you're splitting hairs to be overly myopic. Whose logo is on the product you bought? That's the manufacturer.
So... that goes back to the original question... literally slapping branding on a product or just a web page on it, that's all it takes? That's the "painting your car and calling yourself a manufacturer" conundrum. It's hairier than it sounds because several commonly accepted appliances, like FreePBX, are 99.9999999% made by one company, the tiniest additional thing is slapped on top with no functional differences - basically just cosmetic changes, and now it is an appliance?
