Windows file server query
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
@tim_g said in Windows file server query:
Has always worked well in my experience. I've used it for a long time, and used it on massive data stores... never any data loss, but then again, never had any issues to have to mess with it.
Depending on who you ask, you may get some horror stories.@tim_g said in Windows file server query:
This is the only way to use it, really.
I have file servers virtualized that use Dedupe (via Hyper-V). Never any data corruption.
But I wouldn't base it on my experience alone, others have had issues.I was thinking the same but have read some horror stories. It would have been nice as we have duplicating files in network shares.
It's nice in that duplicates are bad. But all deduplication comes at a cost and it's always about weighing the cost against the benefits. How much benefit do you estimate that deduplication will have for you?
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows file server query:
I think the biggest problem that I see here is a list of tech, without any goals. Flip it around.
Define your goals, then work towards them with the tech. Don't use tech just because it's on a list somewhere. That's how you end up with a disaster that cost a fortune, and doesn't do what is required. What are you trying to accomplish with all of this tech?
We don't know why you have any of it, so commenting on whether you should use it or not comes down to just ruling out tech that isn't production ready and guessing at the rest.
Like dedupe, nothing wrong with it, it's a great technology, but it doesn't make sense for most companies. So without knowing why you are looking at it, we have nothing to go on.
The goal is to virtualize...then at a latter point, upgrade to 2016 (or if boss really wanted 2012R2). Just listing what I thought I was using before then have been doubting if it was really needed.
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
The goal is to virtualize...
That's not a goal, that's a means to a goal. No business anywhere cares if they are virtualized, they care about making money. Virtualization is a smart way to help do that, but it is not a goal itself, ever.
Things of it as a means to an end. You never do a means just to do a means, you do it because the end is valuable.
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
..then at a latter point, upgrade to 2016 (or if boss really wanted 2012R2).
Also, not a goal. All of these things are technical pieces, which can never be goals.
WHY virtualize? WHY use Windows? Why spend money on new hardware? Why buy VMware?
If we asked the same thing about VMware, is the "goal" to give money to the sales person?
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
Just listing what I thought I was using before then have been doubting if it was really needed.
Right, but that isn't useful. And it is a bad practice because it reinforces bad thinking. For example, the most important thing to do in a planning stage like this is identify the goals. Listing tech you might want to use in a vacuum without any consideration for the goals or business needs starts to make it seem reasonable to think of the IT itself as the goal, rather than existing to service the business needs. And that's exactly what we see resulting - the "goals" that you are listing are technical, not business. So the thing we worry might happen, happened.
Listing the tech without goals doesn't give us any means of providing useful feedback. We can't tell you if three hosts, VMware, VSAN, Windows, or even a file server are in any way useful to your business, let alone if DFS, Dedupe or what RAID type is needed.
Does that make more sense? It's like asking us to recommend the suspension tunings for a car when we don't know if you have a car, need a car, or even have a road to drive on yet - or even if you have a reason to need to go somewhere.
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"Don't confuse goals with desires. c. Decide what you really want in life by reconciling your goals and your desires. d. Don't mistake the trappings of success for success itself." - Ray Dalio
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
I was, before, trying to group users based on their access but one of the boss wanted to check who has access to which folder/file and not interested in group--he wanted names--so I am left with retaining individual access (though made a group for share access).
Role-based access is the way to go. This site has a good example using role-based.
http://www.yster.org/role-based-access-control/ -
@scottalanmiller said in Windows file server query:
You mean a salesman is running the show and the boss is just throwing the company's money to them? Every hypervisor comes with "proper" support. VMware has great support, but that's neither here nor there if it isn't a sensible product for your business.
Not quite, not quite there yet as my boss and the vendor still have to meet. But she made clear she wanted virtualization with VMWare. 2 years prior, I have made a point to virtualize, presenting (then good solution) XenServer and have read about HA-Lizard, I also introduced Hyper-V....she insisted on VMWare, let's see where it goes :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows file server query:
Why are you looking at three hosts, instead of two? There is no capacity planning data, but the description makes it sound more likely that two would be all you need (and a far better solution.) Is the third host just a favour to the salesman to add 50% cost onto the project?
That's the other thing! My initial proposition is with XenServer for 2 hosts with HA-Lizard. VMWare presented with HCI with boss watching -- 3 hosts and the game changes.
VMWare passed me to their local partner who echoes the same. Initially wanting 3 hosts for HCI but I have have them pass a proposition for HPE VSA which did not happen as according to the sales personnel, the future of HPE VSA is unclear since HP bought and is favoring SimpliVity.
They passed a higher quote for a traditional 2 host but with SAN (2-storage clusters).
Boss wanted to have local implementation and local support so StarWind is out of the picture...for now. I am using a personal email account in contacting StarWind and present to management when necessary.
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The top level goal is "make money" obviously, for any company. But realistic working goals that IT will respond to could be...
- Lower cost
- Facilitate the business getting more done
- Lower the risk profile of data loss
Things like that. For each decision being made it should be in a context of "how does this service the business", rather than "how can the business buy us cool tech."
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
That's the other thing! My initial proposition is with XenServer for 2 hosts with HA-Lizard. VMWare presented with HCI with boss watching -- 3 hosts and the game changes.
So there WAS a salesman. Other than spending 400% of the money, what was game changing?
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
VMWare passed me to their local partner who echoes the same.
So ANOTHER salesman is trying to sell you the same thing that his upstream salesman pays him to sell..... why are salesman being talked to?
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
Boss wanted to have local implementation and local support so StarWind is out of the picture...for now.
Right, because it doesn't support the salesmen that she likes. It's really clear that the commonality here is getting money into the hands of specific people. Never once is a business need mentioned, only "this is a way to get money to that guy."
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
They passed a higher quote for a traditional 2 host but with SAN (2-storage clusters).
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I would start asking real questions like "how does this meet the needs of the business", and ask that over and over again. What does local support, specific products, spending loads and loads of money for no reason do to help the business?
If I was the CEO and heard this discussion, I'd have a lot of serious questions to ask about how money was intended to be spent and why.
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Honestly, this could be your chance to move up. Sounds like your director isn't even aware of the role of IT and is thinking like a bench tech (tech for tech's sake) instead of thinking like an IT person. IT is a business function and doesn't exist outside of the context of servicing the business. If it doesn't meet business needs, IT shouldn't want to do it.
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It's a chance for you to demonstrate that you are prepared to actually do IT work, not just find a sales person and throw the company under the bus. Approach every single thing from a business and IT perspective. They are bound to notice, instantly, that you are talking their language, not selling them things.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows file server query:
Honestly, this could be your chance to move up. Sounds like your director isn't even aware of the role of IT and is thinking like a bench tech (tech for tech's sake) instead of thinking like an IT person. IT is a business function and doesn't exist outside of the context of servicing the business. If it doesn't meet business needs, IT shouldn't want to do it.
Oooppsss...sorry, perhaps I juggled words. I was directly reporting to a Director (my boss), one of the owners of the family-owned SME business who is in-charge of Operations. She's the one who got in-touch with VMWare and was present when they presented. However, on the occasions when VMWare's partner visited us, she was unavailable.
For the goals, I initially listed last year (but has been in discussion over 2 years ago) all IT goals, not business goals....but it includes, as I have solicited before, minimize electricity, better server management, backup and restore, and be a baseline for developing a disaster recovery solution.
It actually is an IT Infrastructure request but is so large a project that I would have to break it down to several phases or steps as what my boss told me.
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@vhinzsanchez said in Windows file server query:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows file server query:
Honestly, this could be your chance to move up. Sounds like your director isn't even aware of the role of IT and is thinking like a bench tech (tech for tech's sake) instead of thinking like an IT person. IT is a business function and doesn't exist outside of the context of servicing the business. If it doesn't meet business needs, IT shouldn't want to do it.
Oooppsss...sorry, perhaps I juggled words. I was directly reporting to a Director (my boss), one of the owners of the family-owned SME business who is in-charge of Operations. She's the one who got in-touch with VMWare and was present when they presented. However, on the occasions when VMWare's partner visited us, she was unavailable.
For the goals, I initially listed last year (but has been in discussion over 2 years ago) all IT goals, not business goals....but it includes, as I have solicited before, minimize electricity, better server management, backup and restore, and be a baseline for developing a disaster recovery solution.
It actually is an IT Infrastructure request but is so large a project that I would have to break it down to several phases or steps as what my boss told me.
so she definitely is working with sales people. not only did she speak to them, she sought them out?
IT can't have non- business goals, IT doesn't have any such concept like that. What would that even mean? If there is a non-business technical goal that's not IT.
It's rough if your boss is doing this stuff and is an owner. She's behaving then like a hobby, not like a business. But as an owner, she can redefine the business goals to be to fund a salesman rather than making money. But it's a bizarre thing to want to do. But if it is her own money.....
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This adds an extra layer of complication to answering any questions, though. Since we lack goals to start with, and if the business is functioning as a hobby and doesn't prioritize making money, we can't even begin to guess what tech decisions will be seen as positive since saving money isn't a goal or enabling the ability to make money isn't a goal. We lack even the standard "businesses are to make money" framework as a starting point to discussion.
