KVM Desktop Setup Ideas
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@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
So to ask the question, why not just install VirtualBox on this Windows 10 system, create a small Fedora Workstation installation for just managing your KVM box.
With all that pre ample you start by suggeting VirtualBox? instead of asking if he has Windows 10 Pro or Home - then suggesting as the situation dictates?
Hyper-V is more complex as it shifts his daily driver off of the hardware and onto the hypervisor. It's more complex for something he may use for a a day, a week or a month.
It's never not an option, but it isn't an option I'd recommend out of the gate since Vbox doesn't reshape his daily driver.
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@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Otherwise, yes it would need to be installed on a management pc(running linux of course). (Think of it a lot like Hyper-V with Windows 10 Hyper-V Manager)
Ah i be using Win10 as the daily driver
You could use Hyper-V on Win 10 (assuming it's Pro) to install a Fedora VM, and use Virt-Manager from that locally on the Win10 machine.
That too is another option. Not a path I would go down for this project. But still an option.
This is his lab, adding a separate hypervisor to manage (or even Windows to manage KVM) just complicates things.
What - what? You suggested that he add a hypervisor (VirtualBox).
A Type 2, not a Type 1.
Type 1's as Daily Drivers are more complex and take more to manage.
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Sorry should of been clearer on what i've got/using and the goals
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
So to ask the question, why not just install VirtualBox on this Windows 10 system, create a small Fedora Workstation installation for just managing your KVM box.
With all that pre ample you start by suggeting VirtualBox? instead of asking if he has Windows 10 Pro or Home - then suggesting as the situation dictates?
Hyper-V is more complex as it shifts his daily driver off of the hardware and onto the hypervisor. It's more complex for something he may use for a a day, a week or a month.
It's never not an option, but it isn't an option I'd recommend out of the gate since Vbox doesn't reshape his daily driver.
But the Windows 10 install becomes a Dom0 - so sure, it does shift things a bit - but if you never look at Hyper-V manager again, it's not something that almost anyone would ever notice. As long as all the VM's are off - it's basically like Hyper-V isn't there.
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Otherwise, yes it would need to be installed on a management pc(running linux of course). (Think of it a lot like Hyper-V with Windows 10 Hyper-V Manager)
Ah i be using Win10 as the daily driver
You could use Hyper-V on Win 10 (assuming it's Pro) to install a Fedora VM, and use Virt-Manager from that locally on the Win10 machine.
That too is another option. Not a path I would go down for this project. But still an option.
This is his lab, adding a separate hypervisor to manage (or even Windows to manage KVM) just complicates things.
What - what? You suggested that he add a hypervisor (VirtualBox).
A Type 2, not a Type 1.
Type 1's as Daily Drivers are more complex and take more to manage.
We'll simply agree to disagree I guess.
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This is a lab setup. For testing new VM and VM Restores from backups.
Using a Linux VM on my machine is fine with Virtual Box. I'll also look at @dafyre guide.
I'm also looking at Kimchi and other Web based options.This is widely a learning project to be "up to speed" with hypervisor options as i've never looked at KVM before.
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But that was a root component of the previous discussion. If you're going to use virtualization on your daily driver - the only real choices today are KVM or Hyper-V, with the exception being - you already have one or more Virtualbox/VMWare workstation, etc, container that you need to continue using.
I can't speak for KVM - but Hyper-V doesn't require any management on Windows 10. You simply enable it and it's done. If you never setup a VM - it's barely using any resources - likely non that would effect your playing games, etc.
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
This is a lab setup. For testing new VM and VM Restores from backups.
Using a Linux VM on my machine is fine with Virtual Box. I'll also look at @dafyre guide.
I'm also looking at Kimchi and other Web based options.This is widely a learning project to be "up to speed" with hypervisor options as i've never looked at KVM before.
but something that we learned during the long long long discussion the other day was - you have two machines (the fact that it's desktop hardware isn't really relevant, other than you don't have OOB options for managing the hardware - most likely).
So setup the KVM host as you would a server in a Datacenter - where you basically don't expect to have physical access to it, and do what it takes to manage it fully from your remote PC (your WIndows 10 machine).
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Ignoring everything @Dashrender has to say because he's obviously been snorting something particularly powerful over the last few days.
A Type 2 on your daily driver is likely going to be the least intrusive option for your current installation if you need to run a Fedora Workstation VM on your Windows 10 system.
Once you're done with KVM on this system, you'd just uninstall VirtualBox and delete the files.
Ignore all of the "But type 1 is better because of" bullshit that is currently be spouted.
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Hyper-V could be an option but never liked it
So Virtual Box maybe an option
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Hyper-V could be an option but never liked it
So Virtual Box maybe an option
Okay so Hyper-V is off the table, assuming that is why you're looking at KVM. With that, either you can attempt the Cygwin route to install Virt-Manager (I've never tested this) or go down the Type 2 hypervisor route.
Or (and a more extreme route) you could reload your daily driver to dual boot and have Fedora Workstation with just Virt-Manager. But that also seems like overkill.
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Or (and a more extreme route) you could reload your daily driver to dual boot and have Fedora Workstation with just Virt-Manager. But that also seems like overkill.
Not that Overkill
my plan for my daily driver is to up the SSD and then dual boot.Dual boot as this machine may need to be used as a Windows 10 machine for someone to log in if i'm on holiday, as they will get lost with Linux
Then look at moving away from Windows as my Daily driver.
*** Well at least one day ***
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
Or (and a more extreme route) you could reload your daily driver to dual boot and have Fedora Workstation with just Virt-Manager. But that also seems like overkill.
Not that Overkill
my plan for my daily driver is to up the SSD and then dual boot.Dual boot as this machine may need to be used as a Windows 10 machine for someone to log in if i'm on holiday, as they will get lost with Linux
Then look at moving away from Windows as my Daily driver.
Well at least one day
FTFY
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
OK so i've added the 2nd hard drive to Fedora, formatted and mounted.
I'm now struggling on how to manage the system and VM's.
I'm using Cockpit and it's ok for basic maintenance. But can't get it create the VM on the 2nd drive.I've installed virt-manager but not sure how to "connect" to it from my machine.
Using Virt-Manager you need to create a storage pool.
You can still create the storage pool via Cockpit.
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@black3dynamite said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
OK so i've added the 2nd hard drive to Fedora, formatted and mounted.
I'm now struggling on how to manage the system and VM's.
I'm using Cockpit and it's ok for basic maintenance. But can't get it create the VM on the 2nd drive.I've installed virt-manager but not sure how to "connect" to it from my machine.
Using Virt-Manager you need to create a storage pool.
You can still create the storage pool via Cockpit.
I know you can. But it's not nearly as intuitive to do through cockpit.
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@hobbit666 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
I'm using Cockpit and it's ok for basic maintenance. But can't get it create the VM on the 2nd drive.
By default when creating a VM using cockpit, your VMs will be located in the following locations depending on what you select for QEMU/KVM connections.
QEMU/KVM System Connection
/var/lib/libvirt/images/vm.qcow2QEMU/KVM User Connection
~/.local/share/libvirt/images/vm.qcow2Virt-Manager makes it easier to select a different storage pool for your VMs.
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@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
So you run games in a guest VM?
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@wrx7m said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
So you run games in a guest VM?
With Hyper-V and Windows 10, your Windows 10 installation becomes the management domain for Hyper-V.
So no, it's not a VM.
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@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@wrx7m said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
So you run games in a guest VM?
With Hyper-V and Windows 10, your Windows 10 installation becomes the management domain for Hyper-V.
So no, it's not a VM.
Still a VM. Just the prioritized one.
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@wrx7m said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But there is in no way the general expectation that a Type 1 hypervisor is and should also be capable of being a daily driver.
This is where you go off the rails. Since this is common and everyone knows that this is a normal expectation, why would you state something that you know can't be true?
People need desktop virtualization all of the time. And in the modern market, there is essentially no reason to ever look at the only good Type 2, VirtualBox, because it is not nearly as good as Hyper-V or KVM. It's not as fast, or not as safe, and certainly not as easy.
The only reason anyone still considers Type 2 is because some people want Windows Home, and there is no Type 1 option.
I can see for Gamers who also need to do some VMs they may not want the Hyper-V overhead and would aim for type 2.... I hae no idea how much overhead Hyper-V actually introduces though.
I thought that at one point, but it is essentially zero. Gaming is fine with it.
So you run games in a guest VM?
Correct
