@popester said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@popester said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@JaredBusch said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

extremely costly and a lot less efficient than the US one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

US says, hold my beer.

Being conditioned by the current messaging is one thing, knowing by experience is another.

Suffice it to say, despite the issues with the US medical system, it is nowhere near as bad as ours.

A simple solution to the US issue is to put the "price" of services in the consumer's hands. Publish the number insurance pays. Folks will start shopping around for a better price forcing competition. Those multi-million dollar admins hospitals need to run will be greatly reduced.

Up here, we have no choice. Public Unions and workers scream and Gov throws more money on it. Per capita here in Alberta we spend $10B more than any other province in the country.

Our system is so bloated and broken that it can take a year or more to get basic surgery services. People are dying up here man.

The grass is always greener.

Understood, it just seems that we are trying really REALLY hard to ruin it. I personally liked my plan, I wanted to keep my plan. Didn't seem to work out that way. Don't know enough to argue it either way, just know that somebody is making bank on my premiums that have gone through the roof.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

Always, always, always beware The Man.

As soon as Gov gets involved, things get EFFED up. Period.

The corruption up here is insane as it is down there. There's absolutely no will in Gov to deal with it. No cohones to put Public Unions in their place when "bargaining".

Unions portray Gov as evil but it's really "We the People" that end up paying for their largesse.

Dismissal Ladder. Know what that is? I didn't. No accountability. Folks in Health Services can practically kill someone up here and NOT BE DISMISSED!

Work Rules: Know that they are? They are a way to force an employer to create more positions. Why? Because unions don't get more dues on better wages they get more dues with more positions. The Work Rules Bible is key to the bloat in public services.

We're being r*ped up here. It's horrible. No accountability at all.

@popester said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@JaredBusch said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

extremely costly and a lot less efficient than the US one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

US says, hold my beer.

Being conditioned by the current messaging is one thing, knowing by experience is another.

Suffice it to say, despite the issues with the US medical system, it is nowhere near as bad as ours.

A simple solution to the US issue is to put the "price" of services in the consumer's hands. Publish the number insurance pays. Folks will start shopping around for a better price forcing competition. Those multi-million dollar admins hospitals need to run will be greatly reduced.

Up here, we have no choice. Public Unions and workers scream and Gov throws more money on it. Per capita here in Alberta we spend $10B more than any other province in the country.

Our system is so bloated and broken that it can take a year or more to get basic surgery services. People are dying up here man.

The grass is always greener.

@jt1001001 said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

Deaths will always lag, just the lag is getting longer because of testing. See https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1319892084250165254.html

I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, interested?

@Dashrender said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

Until the companies making vaccines have their indemnity removed there ain't no way we'll be anywhere near one of them.

Don't believe everything you read as far as "experts" go either.

"Cases" "Spiking" have nothing to do with virus movement through a population as is being inferred. That's a lie. It just means more testing with test results being positive.

Yeah - it's impossible to know what to trust anymore - there is so much information all from seeming experts...

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Give this guy a Kewpie Doll!

This is my biggest problem with the whole schmozzle we've been seeing since January.

A friend from church, a doctor, was telling us back in December/January that they were being told death rates of 30% or higher and that our healthcare system was going to be overwhelmed with folks.

A neighbour who is a doctor studies vaccines and was telling us all sorts of horror stories about how they are made and how the indemnification means very little testing.

I've lost all trust in "The System".

@manxam said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder : You're correct about the age demographic of deaths here in Canada -- and likely in many parts of the world.
Here's some info from Health Canada : https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html
The numbers show that I'm VERY unlikely to die, but have about a 10% chance of ending up in the ICU. Granted 10% is low but that's way better than lottery odds.

BUT, I don't believe that the issue/fear is about "death" specifically, but about the long term effects of Covid. Having spoken with individuals who "recovered" from Covid, along with numerous articles and posts online, there are a large number of those that are experiencing health issues many months later.
Some are relatively minor (fatigue), others not so much (respiratory issues).

Canada is currently at 10k deaths for a population of approximately 35M
The US is at 200k deaths for a population of 350M.
While the case per 100k then differ by a fair margin, bear in mind that we're almost entirely "middle class" in Canada and have access to free health care all of the time.
If we had the issue of hoards of low income families who couldn't afford to pay for their healthcare, we'd be in a MUCH worse state I'm sure...

P.S. These so-called "draconian" practices aren't to protect you -- we don't care about you -- it's to protect me and those that I care about. I care about them!

Point: ~40% of the US deaths are in the five states I indicated in long term care.

Point: Our health care is not free it is extremely costly and a lot less efficient than the US one. We could get medical services in the US by calling the specialist within a few days. We've been waiting half a year or more just to get a referral. Our system is bloated and poorly run.

Point: Any family whose kids go to school know that a bug runs through the family in September and then again when they go back to school in January. So, what about that? Where were the "protection steps" then? Bugs run through families at least twice a year but we seem to have forgotten about that.

Point: Flu status/deaths have done what since COVID?

Point: Long term impact of any bug is? There are well documented stats on this too.

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Doesn't wash with me.

That's fine, but your argument doesn't wash with me. It's illogical and unfounded. It's just an emotional response that isn't based on the math or the science.

Are the tests being used to create panic? Sure, I'll agree with that. Are the tests false? No, that's a completely different thing.

Extreme example: There were Jews in Germany in 1935... fact. Hitler used this as an excuse for genocide... fact. We can't argue that Jews existed, that's simple fact. It's the horrible policy created using the aforementioned fact as a catalyst that we hate. But the fact can't be changed, and the fact didn't create the policy. The policy alone was the problem.

Re: Tests <-- How many labs have been caught publishing incorrect results?

So your claim, just to be clear, is that the tests themselves are fake and the entire multi-national healthcare response is falsified? That's far more plausible than the math not saying that there is a spike. And it's far from impossible. But it is extreme and difficult given the global nature of it. We'd expect there to be dissenting nations if this were true.

There's been enough doubt cast around tests and their results to be cautious around any "positive test result" claimed. So, yes.

To lend some credence to the US/CDN position, though.... in countries that claim that there is no infection and do no testing (you know who you are) they are having similar movement and death rates to the US. It's just not being reported by politicians. There are countries where the doctors are reporting the same general type numbers as the neighbours, but with the government claiming extremely low numbers.

So in some cases where the government disagrees, the medical field says that the numbers from the US/CDN are similar to what they see.

COVID is real. At least that's what I think is being implied here?

As far as death rates go, CDC has been revising their numbers consistently since February/March. The trend is always downward.

Comorbidity. That's a word I knew nothing about prior to all of this.

Death count in the US is skewed by five democrat governors mandating COVID+ back into the most vulnerable populations in Long Term Care.

Here in Alberta, over 50% of our COVID reported deaths were in two long term care facilities.

There's no doubt about the bug being real.

How it was handled on the other hand, is unreal.

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Doesn't wash with me.

That's fine, but your argument doesn't wash with me. It's illogical and unfounded. It's just an emotional response that isn't based on the math or the science.

Are the tests being used to create panic? Sure, I'll agree with that. Are the tests false? No, that's a completely different thing.

Extreme example: There were Jews in Germany in 1935... fact. Hitler used this as an excuse for genocide... fact. We can't argue that Jews existed, that's simple fact. It's the horrible policy created using the aforementioned fact as a catalyst that we hate. But the fact can't be changed, and the fact didn't create the policy. The policy alone was the problem.

Re: Tests <-- How many labs have been caught publishing incorrect results?

So your claim, just to be clear, is that the tests themselves are fake and the entire multi-national healthcare response is falsified? That's far more plausible than the math not saying that there is a spike. And it's far from impossible. But it is extreme and difficult given the global nature of it. We'd expect there to be dissenting nations if this were true.

There's been enough doubt cast around tests and their results to be cautious around any "positive test result" claimed. So, yes.

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

As far as emotion and logic go, my challenges remain unanswered from a logic perspective.

Everything was addressed, solidly. That there is a spike has no logically counterargument. You've presented no explanation for the spike (increase in positive results per test without an associated drop in testing rate.) So I'm not sure that there's even something to respond to. You've only mentioned factors (like increased total tests) that show that there is definitely a spike, rather than any argument against it.

The two measurements, that is tests and positive counts per tests still don't indicate movement.

Stating that increased positive results per group of tests states that what? That one area happens to have a higher positive count than another?

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Doesn't wash with me.

That's fine, but your argument doesn't wash with me. It's illogical and unfounded. It's just an emotional response that isn't based on the math or the science.

Are the tests being used to create panic? Sure, I'll agree with that. Are the tests false? No, that's a completely different thing.

Extreme example: There were Jews in Germany in 1935... fact. Hitler used this as an excuse for genocide... fact. We can't argue that Jews existed, that's simple fact. It's the horrible policy created using the aforementioned fact as a catalyst that we hate. But the fact can't be changed, and the fact didn't create the policy. The policy alone was the problem.

Re: Tests <-- How many labs have been caught publishing incorrect results?

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Doesn't wash with me.

That's fine, but your argument doesn't wash with me. It's illogical and unfounded. It's just an emotional response that isn't based on the math or the science.

Are the tests being used to create panic? Sure, I'll agree with that. Are the tests false? No, that's a completely different thing.

Extreme example: There were Jews in Germany in 1935... fact. Hitler used this as an excuse for genocide... fact. We can't argue that Jews existed, that's simple fact. It's the horrible policy created using the aforementioned fact as a catalyst that we hate. But the fact can't be changed, and the fact didn't create the policy. The policy alone was the problem.

Yes. "Science" that word has been so abused in the last number of decades.

As far as emotion and logic go, my challenges remain unanswered from a logic perspective.

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Because "Cases" and "Spike" are being used to lockdown populations while death rates have been relatively static or falling.

Now you are leaping again. Want to complain that lockdowns down make sense, argue for that. Don't claim that facts are untrue based on false information because you don't like how those facts are used by government.

Attack policy if you feel it is bad. It's easy to make a case for not locking down. But it's not easy to make a plea for us to believe that math isn't true.

Maybe we need folks talking about "Cases" and "Spikes" to explain clearly what is meant by that. Then, let's get someone to talk about virus movement through a population and how that is measured and tracked.

@JaredBusch said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@scottalanmiller Because "Cases" and "Spike" are being used to lockdown populations while death rates have been relatively static or falling.

Do you know that? Or is the news just reporting that. See post above.

See California. Draconian measures being implemented. Nevada, Ontario and Quebec Canada.

There are plenty of examples of jurisdictions locking down because "Spike".

@scottalanmiller Doesn't wash with me.

@JaredBusch Depends on the test as I understand it.

@scottalanmiller Because "Cases" and "Spike" are being used to lockdown populations while death rates have been relatively static or falling.

@scottalanmiller said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

@PhlipElder said in Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection':

How does it indicate that the virus is moving.

Because people have to get exposed. How do you get exposed without movement? Call.

Again, meaningless.

The population being tested could have been carrying the antibodies for how long?

There are a whole lot of assumptions in there that never seem to get explained when challenged.

@scottalanmiller Why are we testing asymptomatic? What's the purpose of that?

Death rates are lower than one tenth of one percent for populations younger than 70.

What is going on here?

@JaredBusch Um, yes, that is how it works.

A person testing positive indicates the presence only.

Explain to me the "How" a positive test means anything more than that. How does it indicate that the virus is moving.

Call.

Until the companies making vaccines have their indemnity removed there ain't no way we'll be anywhere near one of them.

Don't believe everything you read as far as "experts" go either.

"Cases" "Spiking" have nothing to do with virus movement through a population as is being inferred. That's a lie. It just means more testing with test results being positive.

@nadnerB

@nadnerB said in Random Thread - Anything Goes:

Mine would have a bottle of Grand Marnier in there and I'd know it was ready when the cork popped.