Is Texas Next?
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Most states I've purchased guns in, require you to be a resident of that state but the question itself does pose some interesting points.
I was thinking of Floridians messing with GA, but you are right that Georgians going to Florida to bypass the local gun laws would be more of an issue. In this particular example, Florida does not require any background check at all for purchase so would not have that requirement in this one particular example. But in NY and PA, it would.
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Back to the original topic.... one thing that I think would be interesting is that without membership in the larger US, Texas would be just a few years away from being an hispanic majority country. What are the chances that they would become aligned with Mexico moreso than with the US, would vote Spanish as the primary language and would become generally liberal (blue/left) rather than conservative (red/right?)
I think that not only is Texas changing in general, but that one move might be what secures them the unexpected place of being a super liberal, Spanish speaking stronghold used as a buffer zone between the US and Mexico (which is why Texas was allowed into the Union in the first place.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
I'm game for it. I don't really know of any major product that we still get from Texas. Thinking of major historical exports all of them have been taken over and done more efficiently by other states/countries.
The only thing that will be an issue for me is that if Texas does leave the US it will end up being a third world country in parts that aren't DFW or Austin.
Idaho uses them as a staple for gun law comparisons. So as an Idahoan, that affects me. Everything else, maybe just oil and other fossil fuels?
Haha, does Idaho often argue to become more like Texas?
Yeah. As of the first of July all Idahoans can carry concealed without a permit. I have a permit, and don't agree necessarily with that law. People need proper training not just on the weapons themselves, but the laws.
A common comparison with Texas and Idaho is the "Stand Your Ground" law in Texas. You can stand and fight in a just cause, but in Idaho it is frowned upon, and in some cases very discouraged unless you're in the confines of your own home. Not just your property in some counties, but the structure of your actual home. Most of the state is pretty lax though. We live in a nice neighborhood (middle class) and are surrounded by law enforcement (sheriff's and city police) and someone tried to kick in our door at 2am on a Thursday. I grabbed a gun and called the sheriff. They said that was the right thing to do but I could have dumped the person on the side walk. I just won't do that unless I have no other option like that person entering our house. But some drugged out guy, maybe drunk as well, nah. The officers can deal with that.
That's interesting. I'm not a big fan of most of our gun laws (or lack thereof) in the US but I do think, if we need guns, we need a strict, training and licensing program. That's for another thread though.
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it. Whereas oppressive countries like China and Russia actually take away all your guns, leaving you defenseless. Sweden has an incredibly low crime rate. Here's a picture that was in a news article along with the Sweden comment... the pic is of an oppressive country obviously.
Swedan also has two years of compulsory military service and extremely strict gun regulations. Ammo is so highly regulated there that you can only get it at a gun range for use in target practice. They also have extremely tough regulations associated with how the rifle is stored in your home. With that gun ownership is only about 25%. But again that's a topic for another thread.
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@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
Between the US and Canada? Between FLA and GA it is meth and guns.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
I think that's very standard in America. Once you own a gun, you own several. There are "no" single gun owners, only married ones. Just kidding. Just ones who own zero or several.
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
Between the US and Canada? Between FLA and GA it is meth and guns.
I am not comparing the two, but instead offer it as another example
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
I am seriously never visiting Idaho.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
I am seriously never visiting Idaho.
It's actually a pretty nice state. I would rather be in north Idaho. I hate south Idaho. I hate the people, I hate the ugly high desert, and lots of homeless people in the city. North Idaho, we NEVER had any of those problems. Not once. We slept with the doors open and left keys in our rigs like everyone did. It wasn't until going to places like Seattle & surrounding areas, Spokane, Portland, etc, that we started having problems.
North Idaho is great and I miss the woods. The only thing you have to worry about is wild life like bears and cougars, but cougars you really only see hiking (and usually only at dusk or very early in the morning WAY back in the mountains), and the bears in north Idaho are very small. Usually just black bears.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
I think that's very standard in America. Once you own a gun, you own several. There are "no" single gun owners, only married ones. Just kidding. Just ones who own zero or several.
Oh yeah, definitely a hobbyist shooter. I'm not a gun collector though. Every firearm I own serves a very specific purpose, and sometimes I have a couple (one as backup). Because if there was an issue where we had to get our stuff and leave, if we were involved in a wreck and the primary rifle was ejected from the vehicle and lost or damaged, well then you have no more long range weapons to fall back on.
Aside from tactical training we also shoot at least once a week for 100-150 rounds of various calibers and frames at the range to stay sharp.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
You have noble motives and from what you posted previously you are probably better trained than many police officers. Infact I know you are because I shoot with many of them here and they definitely do not train that hard haha.
I (personally!) can't justify the extreme responsibility of carrying a firearm out of fear. Out of duty like a police officer, absolutely. But without a societal role and responsibility to your fellow citizens hell no. Maybe it's because handguns are so rare here? Maybe it's crime? Maybe no one messes with 6' tall, young, well dressed gentlemen built like brick outhouses? Whatever the reason the whole idea gives me the creeps.
However I could imagine having a professional militia who were trained and held to high standards being allowed to carry. Just any regular mouth breathing moron though? These are the things nightmares are made of.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
It's actually a pretty nice state. I would rather be in north Idaho.
Too late, I'm terrified now.
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
You have noble motives and from what you posted previously you are probably better trained than many police officers. Infact I know you are because I shoot with many of them here and they definitely do not train that hard haha.
I (personally!) can't justify the extreme responsibility of carrying a firearm out of fear. Out of duty like a police officer, absolutely. But without a societal role and responsibility to your fellow citizens hell no. Maybe it's because handguns are so rare here? Maybe it's crime? Maybe no one messes with 6' tall, young, well dressed gentlemen built like brick outhouses? Whatever the reason the whole idea gives me the creeps.
However I could imagine having a professional militia who were trained and held to high standards being allowed to carry. Just any regular mouth breathing moron though? These are the things nightmares are made of.
I wouldn't put myself on any level with law enforcement. I just enjoy training and not only want to be prepared, I want to make sure I'm ready.
I don't just carry for my own protection, it's for other people as well. If I saw someone fearing for their life, I would lay that attacker out like an animal behind the shed. No good, honest person has to die because someone chooses to put them in that situation. I really hope I am never put in that position where I have to come to someone's aid. If I wanted to be a hero and save people, I would have been a fireman.
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@MattSpeller I actually always wanted to be a fireman. It runs in the family along with military service. I never did either of those because I just couldn't live with myself knowing I couldn't save someone, or had to leave someone behind in a burning house to die.
But now I'm digressing away from the original topic. /done
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
Maybe no one messes with 6' tall, young, well dressed gentlemen built like brick outhouses?
This plays a big role. I was in a rough area of Panama City last year and before going into a very dangerous (they say) area my local friend told me that I needed to be very careful because I was so "white" (still am) that I would be a target and there would be no way for me to be casual. She said it was pretty dangerous.
I looked at her and said "really?" Then she looked again taking into account more than my skin colour and was like "Oh, ha ha, you're fine. No one is going to mess with you."
It's a combination of being taller, bigger and more confident than the people around me. Mostly from ignorance, I'm sure. But between the size differential and having no natural fear of people in public I come across as intimidating.
I once walked three miles through the London docklands, a pretty rough area, at twilight. When I arrived at my destination everyone was amazed that I was not mugged. Then someone looked me up and down and realized that I looked like a skinhead neo-nazi and was probably the scariest person on the street because I walked with a purpose, didn't flinch from other people being there and aggressively looked people in the eyes because that's what I do.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
You have noble motives and from what you posted previously you are probably better trained than many police officers. Infact I know you are because I shoot with many of them here and they definitely do not train that hard haha.
I (personally!) can't justify the extreme responsibility of carrying a firearm out of fear. Out of duty like a police officer, absolutely. But without a societal role and responsibility to your fellow citizens hell no. Maybe it's because handguns are so rare here? Maybe it's crime? Maybe no one messes with 6' tall, young, well dressed gentlemen built like brick outhouses? Whatever the reason the whole idea gives me the creeps.
However I could imagine having a professional militia who were trained and held to high standards being allowed to carry. Just any regular mouth breathing moron though? These are the things nightmares are made of.
I wouldn't put myself on any level with law enforcement.
Initial throat clearing:
I want to be incredibly clear I'm just asking questions in a calm respectful manner - I am super curious about motivations behind this and I CRAVE an open and honest and calm discussion about all of it. It's one of the most prescient questions of our time and I spend quite a bit of thought on it.From your second paragraph isn't that what you've become though? Psudo law enforcement?
To be clear I don't know if that's good, bad or indifferent though I lean towards good but super dangerous. Does the good that it does outweigh the potential for harm? Is there any way we can quantify that?
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
To be clear I don't know if that's good, bad or indifferent though I lean towards good but super dangerous. Does the good that it does outweigh the potential for harm? Is there any way we can quantify that?
I'll throw in hopefully a few neutral thoughts....
- The current statistics on the safety of law enforcement are not the best. Not as horrible as one camp suggests but not nearly as good as they should be.
- Statistically carrying a gun is dangerous for everyone. On average it is bad.
- Statistically doesn't apply to someone who takes a lot of care and training because statistically they don't even register as they are so uncommon in the numbers.
- Private citizens with guns have rights and powers that cops do not and can sometimes do important things that cops cannot.
Hopefully none of those convey opinion but only the underlying math of why one thing or another makes sense.
