Is Texas Next?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@Son-of-Jor-El said in Is Texas Next?:
I don't want to derail the thread but looking up stats, I noticed the lower the legal gun ownership, the higher the gun death rates were. D.C. had to lowest gun ownership, and the highest death rate. .
Is that at a state by state granularity? At the national level that's definitely not true. Compare the US and UK.
Americans are just more aggressive, in my opinion. Short answer, yes it's based on state granularity. Mississippi has the highest murder rate, DC is way up there. North Dakota is the lowest. But that is also a state that is living in the early 1900's still. A lot of my friends trucked oil over there. I have my Class-A CDL with Hazmat (used to work in heavy machinery before IT), and they wanted me to go over there. No way. Not even for good money. If you turn your rig around on someone's property, they can and will hold you at gun point until you give them whatever ransom they set. The local authorities look the other way because they believe the same. They held my buddy's co-worker at gunpoint until the company drove a check over for $10k.
Collectively I would say as an American I see way more aggression in our society. When Europeans come over to visit us (some family members married overseas), they think it's crazy we sleep with guns and lock our doors. The funny thing is, Boise is nothing compared to some places in western WA & OR that I've lived. VA & MS put those states to shame even. But with my Idaho Enhanced Concealed Carry permit, I can carry in 41 states. Just not the Northeast.
Hard to compare but that is my $0.02
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
I'm game for it. I don't really know of any major product that we still get from Texas. Thinking of major historical exports all of them have been taken over and done more efficiently by other states/countries.
The only thing that will be an issue for me is that if Texas does leave the US it will end up being a third world country in parts that aren't DFW or Austin.
Idaho uses them as a staple for gun law comparisons. So as an Idahoan, that affects me. Everything else, maybe just oil and other fossil fuels?
Haha, does Idaho often argue to become more like Texas?
Yeah. As of the first of July all Idahoans can carry concealed without a permit. I have a permit, and don't agree necessarily with that law. People need proper training not just on the weapons themselves, but the laws.
A common comparison with Texas and Idaho is the "Stand Your Ground" law in Texas. You can stand and fight in a just cause, but in Idaho it is frowned upon, and in some cases very discouraged unless you're in the confines of your own home. Not just your property in some counties, but the structure of your actual home. Most of the state is pretty lax though. We live in a nice neighborhood (middle class) and are surrounded by law enforcement (sheriff's and city police) and someone tried to kick in our door at 2am on a Thursday. I grabbed a gun and called the sheriff. They said that was the right thing to do but I could have dumped the person on the side walk. I just won't do that unless I have no other option like that person entering our house. But some drugged out guy, maybe drunk as well, nah. The officers can deal with that.
That's interesting. I'm not a big fan of most of our gun laws (or lack thereof) in the US but I do think, if we need guns, we need a strict, training and licensing program. That's for another thread though.
I've been putting quite a bit of thought into how we could make better gun laws. Intelligent ones.
It's tempting to use/abuse this talented bunch of brains for such a purpose.
I just mentioned the insurance idea to my dad and he loved that one.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Americans are just more aggressive, in my opinion.
Agreed, but it has to come from somewhere. We are more aggressive than the British, more aggressive than Mexico, more aggressive than Germany.... yet those are the groups that make up most of the population. The aggression seems to mostly be generated internally. I think that the comparisons are valuable in both cases. What do nation by nation gun stats tell us; what do state by state ones tell us?
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
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@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
I'm game for it. I don't really know of any major product that we still get from Texas. Thinking of major historical exports all of them have been taken over and done more efficiently by other states/countries.
The only thing that will be an issue for me is that if Texas does leave the US it will end up being a third world country in parts that aren't DFW or Austin.
Cattle?
Not really anymore, California has taken over the milk and the mid-west has taken over the beef. Edit: Had to look at stats again.
California took over the dairy from NY and Wisconsin. NY still has the highest density of production in Wyoming County.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
I'm game for it. I don't really know of any major product that we still get from Texas. Thinking of major historical exports all of them have been taken over and done more efficiently by other states/countries.
The only thing that will be an issue for me is that if Texas does leave the US it will end up being a third world country in parts that aren't DFW or Austin.
Cattle?
Nah, those mangy desert cattle are nothing compared to the Hereford and Black Angus we have up here.
Yes, it is too hot for really high quality cattle raising. It's just volume down there. Like Napa Valley and wine. Quantity over quality.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Americans are just more aggressive, in my opinion.
Agreed, but it has to come from somewhere. We are more aggressive than the British, more aggressive than Mexico, more aggressive than Germany.... yet those are the groups that make up most of the population. The aggression seems to mostly be generated internally. I think that the comparisons are valuable in both cases. What do nation by nation gun stats tell us; what do state by state ones tell us?
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
Most states I've purchased guns in, require you to be a resident of that state but the question itself does pose some interesting points.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Most states I've purchased guns in, require you to be a resident of that state but the question itself does pose some interesting points.
I was thinking of Floridians messing with GA, but you are right that Georgians going to Florida to bypass the local gun laws would be more of an issue. In this particular example, Florida does not require any background check at all for purchase so would not have that requirement in this one particular example. But in NY and PA, it would.
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Back to the original topic.... one thing that I think would be interesting is that without membership in the larger US, Texas would be just a few years away from being an hispanic majority country. What are the chances that they would become aligned with Mexico moreso than with the US, would vote Spanish as the primary language and would become generally liberal (blue/left) rather than conservative (red/right?)
I think that not only is Texas changing in general, but that one move might be what secures them the unexpected place of being a super liberal, Spanish speaking stronghold used as a buffer zone between the US and Mexico (which is why Texas was allowed into the Union in the first place.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@coliver said in Is Texas Next?:
I'm game for it. I don't really know of any major product that we still get from Texas. Thinking of major historical exports all of them have been taken over and done more efficiently by other states/countries.
The only thing that will be an issue for me is that if Texas does leave the US it will end up being a third world country in parts that aren't DFW or Austin.
Idaho uses them as a staple for gun law comparisons. So as an Idahoan, that affects me. Everything else, maybe just oil and other fossil fuels?
Haha, does Idaho often argue to become more like Texas?
Yeah. As of the first of July all Idahoans can carry concealed without a permit. I have a permit, and don't agree necessarily with that law. People need proper training not just on the weapons themselves, but the laws.
A common comparison with Texas and Idaho is the "Stand Your Ground" law in Texas. You can stand and fight in a just cause, but in Idaho it is frowned upon, and in some cases very discouraged unless you're in the confines of your own home. Not just your property in some counties, but the structure of your actual home. Most of the state is pretty lax though. We live in a nice neighborhood (middle class) and are surrounded by law enforcement (sheriff's and city police) and someone tried to kick in our door at 2am on a Thursday. I grabbed a gun and called the sheriff. They said that was the right thing to do but I could have dumped the person on the side walk. I just won't do that unless I have no other option like that person entering our house. But some drugged out guy, maybe drunk as well, nah. The officers can deal with that.
That's interesting. I'm not a big fan of most of our gun laws (or lack thereof) in the US but I do think, if we need guns, we need a strict, training and licensing program. That's for another thread though.
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it. Whereas oppressive countries like China and Russia actually take away all your guns, leaving you defenseless. Sweden has an incredibly low crime rate. Here's a picture that was in a news article along with the Sweden comment... the pic is of an oppressive country obviously.
Swedan also has two years of compulsory military service and extremely strict gun regulations. Ammo is so highly regulated there that you can only get it at a gun range for use in target practice. They also have extremely tough regulations associated with how the rifle is stored in your home. With that gun ownership is only about 25%. But again that's a topic for another thread.
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@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
Between the US and Canada? Between FLA and GA it is meth and guns.
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
I think that's very standard in America. Once you own a gun, you own several. There are "no" single gun owners, only married ones. Just kidding. Just ones who own zero or several.
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@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
One thing that is misleading, potentially, is do loose gun laws in one state create risk in a neighbouring one? It's trivial to buy a gun in Florida and drive it into Georgia, for example.
It would be really nice to stop the trade of pot for handguns between our countries
Between the US and Canada? Between FLA and GA it is meth and guns.
I am not comparing the two, but instead offer it as another example
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@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
I am seriously never visiting Idaho.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@MattSpeller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford I share your enthusiasm for firearms even if I do not own nearly as many. What I don't understand is why anyone would carry one around. It.... just does not compute for me. We may need another thread for just that.
Aside from a few home invasion attempts in various cities, I've also had various people try to enter our vehicle when we come to a stop sign or pedestrian crossings. We have the doors locked so I typically just pull away quickly when I hear them on the door handle. Some areas were very nice neighborhoods and they were just dumb kids that looked like they were on drugs, others were sketchy neighborhoods that couldn't have been avoided because of how the layout of the city was and where our destination was.
I also have been approached when I'm biking or on foot by aggressive homeless people in some of the parks that I will jog in or bike on the trail. A gun is just a tool, nothing more. You can't brandish it at someone to intimidate them or make them go away. But if it comes down to it, you have the tool to survive a situation. Luckily I've never had to draw on someone, and I hope I never have to. But if I'm put in that situation, I won't be the one that ends up in the obituaries and force my family to find another means of financial support. That's why I carry a firearm.
I am seriously never visiting Idaho.
It's actually a pretty nice state. I would rather be in north Idaho. I hate south Idaho. I hate the people, I hate the ugly high desert, and lots of homeless people in the city. North Idaho, we NEVER had any of those problems. Not once. We slept with the doors open and left keys in our rigs like everyone did. It wasn't until going to places like Seattle & surrounding areas, Spokane, Portland, etc, that we started having problems.
North Idaho is great and I miss the woods. The only thing you have to worry about is wild life like bears and cougars, but cougars you really only see hiking (and usually only at dusk or very early in the morning WAY back in the mountains), and the bears in north Idaho are very small. Usually just black bears.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is Texas Next?:
@BBigford said in Is Texas Next?:
Sweden issues every citizen a rifle, then conducts a training program to show them how to use it.
If that is true, how do you explain that Americans own 400% more guns per person than the Swedes do? Sweden is definitely high on the gun ownership list overall, but their ownership rate is not nearly high enough to support this. In the US where there are more guns than people (seriously!) household gun ownership is still just one in three. Statistically that suggests that only about one in ten Swedish households own a gun and only something like one in thirty people would have one.
400% I would believe as I have about 12 guns, because I really really like guns. I was raised on a ranch/farm and we lived about 3 miles from a regional gun club and rifle range. I have different guns for different uses, like a bull-pup shotgun for home defense, a mid-range rifle, long range rifle, mid-range shotgun for hunting, various revolvers for hiking (larger caliber for places like Montana & Alaska since we don't have as large of bears & moose in northern Idaho when I go home), then various semi-automatic pistols depending on what I'm wearing that day. Something like basketball shorts & a t-shirt vs. coat, jeans, etc allow you to carry a different caliber and frame size.
I also believe in lots of training, I do a minimum of 4 hours of training each week with my girlfriend whether we're doing urban training, vehicle take downs (though that would be highly rare on the civilian side of things), hiking & defense against charging bears, or home defense.
I think that's very standard in America. Once you own a gun, you own several. There are "no" single gun owners, only married ones. Just kidding. Just ones who own zero or several.
Oh yeah, definitely a hobbyist shooter. I'm not a gun collector though. Every firearm I own serves a very specific purpose, and sometimes I have a couple (one as backup). Because if there was an issue where we had to get our stuff and leave, if we were involved in a wreck and the primary rifle was ejected from the vehicle and lost or damaged, well then you have no more long range weapons to fall back on.
Aside from tactical training we also shoot at least once a week for 100-150 rounds of various calibers and frames at the range to stay sharp.
