Just How Hard is University to Overcome
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I went from newbie at the bank to SVP equivalent in under a year. It can really work.
On it's own, this is a meaningless statement. Please expand upon it.
What do you want expanded on? By working hard and doing my job it was easy to get recognition for my work and demonstrate my work because I was busy producing value for the bank rather than sneaking off to spend my free time taking classes that didn't make me any better at my job.
What is a newbie at a bank? That could have meant you were a director, or whatever is one step below an SVP, who was promoted to SVP inside one year.
We need to know where you really started to know if there is any value in that statement.Also, what levels, if any, did you skip over going from "newbie at bank" to SVP? etc.
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Here is a quick video explaining the doctors and illiterate thing for @scottalanmiller
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lol I wrote this before Scott posted his video.. probably while he was making that video.
Careers that are held hostage by college requirements aren't really part of the job pool that is used in these discussions because of that requirement - college.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
What is a newbie at a bank? That could have meant you were a director, or whatever is one step below an SVP, who was promoted to SVP inside one year.
SVP goes to EVP to Director in a bank.
I was untitled, pure tech labour.
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
What is a newbie at a bank? That could have meant you were a director, or whatever is one step below an SVP, who was promoted to SVP inside one year.
SVP goes to EVP to Director in a bank.
I was untitled, pure tech labour.
please list all levels between pure tech labor and SVP.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
We need to know where you really started to know if there is any value in that statement.
"Senior Individual Contributor" is what it is called. I was experienced enough to get the senior title, but no authority. Basically paid higher for technical experience, but was not in charge of anything.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Also, what levels, if any, did you skip over going from "newbie at bank" to SVP? etc.
I skipped Lead, Manager, AVP and VP.
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OK so I watched the video - and my first question is - of all people going to college, how many of them do you think fit the mold of the pool that you're talking about - and additionally, please provide a list of at least 5 careers that can be good financially without college.
Possible careers I can think of
IT - duh
programmer/developer
entreprenuer -
@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
OK so I watched the video - and my first question is - of all people going to college, how many of them do you think fit the mold of the pool that you're talking about ...
This bit doesn't matter. Because what does matter is that it is 100% of the people of whom we are ever talking about. Whether this number is 1% or 80% of potential university goers is irrelevant. It's all of the people that you will ever talk to about this. Because someone who has to go to school there is no discussion to have. People who can't there is no discussion to have. People who are going for non-career reasons it's obvious that the discussion is nonsensical. Only those pondering how to advance their career are in the pool and are 100% who we are discussing.
So where it matters, it's 100%.
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
OK so I watched the video - and my first question is - of all people going to college, how many of them do you think fit the mold of the pool that you're talking about ...
This bit doesn't matter. Because what does matter is that it is 100% of the people of whom we are ever talking about. Whether this number is 1% or 80% of potential university goers is irrelevant. It's all of the people that you will ever talk to about this. Because someone who has to go to school there is no discussion to have. People who can't there is no discussion to have. People who are going for non-career reasons it's obvious that the discussion is nonsensical. Only those pondering how to advance their career are in the pool and are 100% who we are discussing.
So where it matters, it's 100%.
I know it doesn't matter in this specific context, but it does matter in the general conversation about college attendance. For example, is most people going to college have no clue where they are going for a career, then college in general, i.e. for the masses, might be a good thing. And IF that's the case, then I think a short mentioning of something like that should be included in these topics to help remind people that these topics are specific to those who know their goal and are working toward it. Of course, just stating that along should be enough, but come on - we come back to this point of a narrow group of people we are talking about so often that including this specific bit should help get rid of the constant ask.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
... - and additionally, please provide a list of at least 5 careers that can be good financially without college.
Possible careers I can think of
IT - duh
programmer/developer
entreprenuer- IT
- Bench
- Software Engineering
- Financial Advisers
- Human Resources
- Bookkeeping and non-tax accounting
- Office Management
- Management
- Project Management (PM is not a management field)
- Investment Banking
- Restaurateur
- Hospitality Management
- Music (Non-education)
- Graphic Arts
- Chemist
- Any manual skill field from welding to metal working, etc.
- Manufacturing specialists
- Mathematician
- Business Analyst
- Data Scientist
- Logistics specialist
- Healthcare Management
- Lawyer in a few remaining states
- Nurse in most states
- Teacher in private schools
- Professor
- Politician
- Pilot
- Writer
- Photographer
- Journalist
- Engineer (non-civil)
- Venture Capitalist
- Trader
- Entrepreneur
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I know it doesn't matter in this specific context, but it does matter in the general conversation about college attendance. For example, is most people going to college have no clue where they are going for a career, then college in general, i.e. for the masses, might be a good thing.
That's not a good reading of that data. Even if you don't know what you want to do, you can still advance your career options faster not being in school than being in it. University will not expose you to career options, but will, in fact, hold you back and waste your time at a point where it is most critical that you figure that stuff out.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
And IF that's the case, then I think a short mentioning of something like that should be included in these topics to help remind people that these topics are specific to those who know their goal and are working toward it.
If their goal is "going to university to promote career earnings" then they apply. If they are going to university knowing that they will never earn more money, then the title of the thread alone tells them that.
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I don't believe some on your list.
I'll pick healthcare management.
Because of the good'ol boy problem, it seems unlikely you could find a healthcare facility that would like to hire a management position with no college. but, of course, I could be wrong.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I don't believe some on your list.
I'll pick healthcare management.
Because of the good'ol boy problem, it seems unlikely you could find a healthcare facility that would like to hire a management position with no college. but, of course, I could be wrong.
What's funny is you immediately pick one I got into without a degree. I've done a lot on the list and they are beyond question because I've seen it first hand. I've been hospital management without a degree, so has @Eric
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Because of the good'ol boy problem...
Actually that would make it easier. Get a job regardless of qualifications.
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Gotta say that's not where I thought the whole doctor question was going...
Where did you think that it was going?
Someplace talked about how bad the physician profession is.
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@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Gotta say that's not where I thought the whole doctor question was going...
Where did you think that it was going?
Someplace talked about how bad the physician profession is.
Good or bad, this is just career questions, though. And physicians are very skewing to the numbers because they stay in school for forever, then make a huge income once they are out, for a very short career. So they make the income sound great, but often don't earn that much.
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Something a lot of people miss as well is that making $50K / year for 40 years is way better than making $100K / year for 20 years because of taxes. You'll pay far, far higher percentages in taxes for the same income. Same thing for college grads. Because they compress their earnings into a shorter career lifespan, and rely on higher annual income, they pay a higher tax rate for that.
So higher taxes and working against the time value of money. It adds up.
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I wish I had invested a portion of my college fund, also wish I didn't waste 6 years of my life and loan debt on a degree I won't use....but hindsight is 20/20.
