What BASH and SSH Mean for Windows Systems Administration
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@Dashrender said:
Wow Just wow - other than the fact that I don't think I'd want to work in such a clearly knowledge deficient environment, man, how do I get a job at $200K there? lol
Believe it or not, they struggle to hire!
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@scottalanmiller said:
Think of it this way.... if you went to thirty SMB shops on SW, what are the chances that a single one of them has seen the info that SANs aren't needed like they think, that they shouldn't farm their own jobs out to sales people and that RAID 5 is a bad idea? You might get lucky, but there is every chance that not a single one would have seen that despite it being discussed ad nauseum, being widely published and continuously discussed for nearly a decade.
There's a severe difference, or at least there should be, between SMB IT personal and guys getting $200K/yr. Sadly SMB's rarely pay for training, and well sadly the personal don't care about their own professional growth within IT so they don't and update their skills.
But larger companies should be mandating this and providing it. -
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Wow Just wow - other than the fact that I don't think I'd want to work in such a clearly knowledge deficient environment, man, how do I get a job at $200K there? lol
Believe it or not, they struggle to hire!
How can that be? Do the places have such horrible reputations that no one wants to work there? Are they in Detroit, aka no one wants to live there?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Think of it this way.... if you went to thirty SMB shops on SW, what are the chances that a single one of them has seen the info that SANs aren't needed like they think, that they shouldn't farm their own jobs out to sales people and that RAID 5 is a bad idea? You might get lucky, but there is every chance that not a single one would have seen that despite it being discussed ad nauseum, being widely published and continuously discussed for nearly a decade.
There's a severe difference, or at least there should be, between SMB IT personal and guys getting $200K/yr. Sadly SMB's rarely pay for training, and well sadly the personal don't care about their own professional growth within IT so they don't and update their skills.
But larger companies should be mandating this and providing it.They hope to hire people with the experience already, in many cases. And if you don't know what training you don't have, how do you know what to send people to?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Wow Just wow - other than the fact that I don't think I'd want to work in such a clearly knowledge deficient environment, man, how do I get a job at $200K there? lol
Believe it or not, they struggle to hire!
How can that be? Do the places have such horrible reputations that no one wants to work there? Are they in Detroit, aka no one wants to live there?
Yup, a lot like that.
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Plus bad location. You have no idea how little IT people are willing to relocate, even for big money. That alone almost totally cripples the industry.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Think of it this way.... if you went to thirty SMB shops on SW, what are the chances that a single one of them has seen the info that SANs aren't needed like they think, that they shouldn't farm their own jobs out to sales people and that RAID 5 is a bad idea? You might get lucky, but there is every chance that not a single one would have seen that despite it being discussed ad nauseum, being widely published and continuously discussed for nearly a decade.
There's a severe difference, or at least there should be, between SMB IT personal and guys getting $200K/yr. Sadly SMB's rarely pay for training, and well sadly the personal don't care about their own professional growth within IT so they don't and update their skills.
But larger companies should be mandating this and providing it.They hope to hire people with the experience already, in many cases. And if you don't know what training you don't have, how do you know what to send people to?
I suppose that's a good question - well, perhaps re-certing or first certing has just shown some value at these companies.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Plus bad location. You have no idea how little IT people are willing to relocate, even for big money. That alone almost totally cripples the industry.
Is there any industry where it's workers as a rule want to relocate, even for big money?
I would have to agree that it would be like moving a mountain for me to move short of getting a divorce. While I have little family left here (only one brother I rarely see), nearly her entire family is here. Only her sister has left, and that was two years ago, got divorce just after getting her nursing degree (she's 40, got the degree at 35) and left the city.
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@Dashrender said:
Is there any industry where it's workers as a rule want to relocate, even for big money?
Most, I think.
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We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Is there any industry where it's workers as a rule want to relocate, even for big money?
Most, I think.
really? You think most people in this world are willing to relocate, but somehow IT personal aren't? Why would that be?
I completely disagree with you. I feel, it's only a feeling, that most people wouldn't move. For the same reason that most people won't leave crappy jobs - laziness and afraid of the unknown. When relocating, you toss in the loss of easy access to friends and family - these are huge motivations to not move.
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@scottalanmiller said:
We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
When did this era start? I guess it started when cars became affordable to the every-man. So this isn't something new. Outside of the military I know very few people who have moved into or out of my city. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't feel like it's a common, or even considered normal thing.
Does that leave employers in the driver's seat? Sure.
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
When did this era start? I guess it started when cars became affordable to the every-man. So this isn't something new. Outside of the military I know very few people who have moved into or out of my city. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't feel like it's a common, or even considered normal thing.
Does that leave employers in the driver's seat? Sure.
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
Human's prior to the Agricultural revolution, and some tribes even after that, were extremely nomadic.
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@Dashrender said:
really? You think most people in this world are willing to relocate, but somehow IT personal aren't? Why would that be?
You asked about careers, I thought. Most people just worked low end jobs wherever they are. Whatever is available. Unskilled work, not in a career.
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@Dashrender said:
When did this era start?
Our parents generation (those about to retire) were the first of the relocation generation. We are the mobile generation... always on the move. Everyone I know with a vibrant career moves regularly for it. All fields, all company types. Moving regularly is just part of a normal career now. For our parents it was "the first generation to broadly leave home" and not work in their home town. For us, we are the generation that never settles down.
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@Dashrender said:
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
Well, that might be true. I don't know if "wrong" is the term here. But my observation, which is a lot of people in a lot of places, is that people with careers tend to move a lot on average.
The exceptions are nearly all people who still moved once but got to a huge market and have managed to stay there like NYC or London.
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@coliver said:
Human's prior to the Agricultural revolution, and some tribes even after that, were extremely nomadic.
Very true. The stationary life was a relatively short duration thing in the broad scope.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
When did this era start? I guess it started when cars became affordable to the every-man. So this isn't something new. Outside of the military I know very few people who have moved into or out of my city. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't feel like it's a common, or even considered normal thing.
Does that leave employers in the driver's seat? Sure.
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
Growing up we never lived in one place for more then 2 years. One place we stayed for 6 months. Although from my experience in most places we grew up we were the exception and not the rule.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
When did this era start? I guess it started when cars became affordable to the every-man. So this isn't something new. Outside of the military I know very few people who have moved into or out of my city. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't feel like it's a common, or even considered normal thing.
Does that leave employers in the driver's seat? Sure.
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
Human's prior to the Agricultural revolution, and some tribes even after that, were extremely nomadic.
Are you an Ishmael fan @coliver ?
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@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
We live in the era of relocation. Inability to relocate is a total yoke for nearly any profession. Doesn't matter what you do: teach high school, electrical engineer, IT, muralist, concert pianist, actor, pilot.... if you are unable to relocate your career pretty much stops. It's not just that opportunities disappear, but the few remaining employers know that they own you and that you have no leverage so your "market value" disappears.
When did this era start? I guess it started when cars became affordable to the every-man. So this isn't something new. Outside of the military I know very few people who have moved into or out of my city. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't feel like it's a common, or even considered normal thing.
Does that leave employers in the driver's seat? Sure.
Oh wait - maybe this is one of those, the just because the normal person doesn't do it, doesn't make it wrong type situations you always have on hand. Now that I'll give you. But humans by nature aren't very nomadic, that was neanderthal.
Human's prior to the Agricultural revolution, and some tribes even after that, were extremely nomadic.
Are you an Ishmael fan @coliver ?
I don't think I've ever read it. I'll look into it.
