Do you charge up front for a job?



  • A little over a month ago, I made a deal with ML member to do some work for me. We agreed upon $300 for the job. He asked for half up front so I paid him.

    He thought the job would only take X long. He ran into a few complications, but came up with a workaround. I approached him and offered to pay more than what we agreed upon. An extra $150 for a total of $450 for the job. He then told me he under quoted, but that's his fault so he will stick with the $300.

    He said he was going to complete the job that day (this was about a month ago.) He never showed up online to do the work. So the next day I messaged him and insisted on paying the extra $150 for the job. He again said the $300 was fine and promised a date. The date came and he didn't show again.

    So I messaged him the next day asking if I could help in any way with the project. He said no, it will be done tonight. So I said ok. That night also came and went.

    I messaged him a couple days later and nothing. HE was online , but ignoring my messages. I message him nicely every 2-3 days for the next 2-3 weeks. I told him I don't need it done today , but I would just like some communication on the project. After about a month, I have given up and I guess I will need to try dispute the charge.



  • Sounds unfortunate. Without anything in writing there's not much that can be done, and for such a (relatively) small amount, it probably wouldn't be worth it anyway. Call it a lesson learned.



  • @crustachio said:

    Sounds unfortunate. Without anything in writing there's not much that can be done, and for such a (relatively) small amount, it probably wouldn't be worth it anyway. Call it a lesson learned.

    Yeah, I guess that is the risk of handshake deals. I have to tell my business partner I lost $150 which I am not excited to do.



  • I still think I should be able to dispute the charge.



  • @IRJ said:

    So the next day I messaged him and insisted on paying the extra $150 for the job. He again said the $300 was fine and promise

    Did he do any work at all? If he did, then you probably can't ask for that back - he could sue you for it, potentially.

    Sux a ML'er did that.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @IRJ said:

    So the next day I messaged him and insisted on paying the extra $150 for the job. He again said the $300 was fine and promise

    Did he do any work at all? If he did, then you probably can't ask for that back - he could sue you for it, potentially.

    Sux a ML'er did that.

    He did do some work (very minimal), but I never implemented it in a live environment.



  • Very sad to see....



  • @Minion-Queen said:

    Very sad to see....

    Yeah. My partner and I were pretty excited about the quote and plan he had laid out for us. Unfortunately I didn't work out.


  • Banned

    This isn't the same one that took down grove social I hope..



  • @Jason said:

    This isn't the same one that took down grove social I hope..

    I found it that it wasn't, but it was somebody that @Minion-Queen was looking forward to work with on more projects.



  • @Jason said:

    This isn't the same one that took down grove social I hope..

    No, unrelated, but rightfully suspicious.



  • What should have I done differently in this scenario?



  • @IRJ said:

    What should have I done differently in this scenario?

    Is there a good answer to that? I'm not sure. Even when you do everything right, things can go wrong. No scenario is perfect.


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said:

    @IRJ said:

    What should have I done differently in this scenario?

    Is there a good answer to that? I'm not sure. Even when you do everything right, things can go wrong. No scenario is perfect.

    Have a contact in place? That's about the only thing you could have done differently. It would still require a court case to get your money back and you likely could get it even without that.


  • Banned

    T&Cs, contract, signed and agreed.

    I do this for every piece of work I do. It not only protects the client, it also protects me because my own terms & conditions are listed.

    Some people have bad patches, so whoever this user is, maybe he or she is going through a rough time and cannot deal.

    Deposit up front is fairly standard, it depends on the work involved, what the cost to the provider is, so yes you can charge in advance of work completed, in some cases you should do.



  • So who is it? Call that bitch out publicly. If they're near ATL, I'll gladly roll out w the boys if you like.


  • Banned

    @RojoLoco said:

    So who is it? Call that bitch out publicly. If they're near ATL, I'll gladly roll out w the boys if you like.

    He said, she said.

    Never works in online communities. I'd rather we did not do that.



  • @Breffni-Potter said:

    @RojoLoco said:

    So who is it? Call that bitch out publicly. If they're near ATL, I'll gladly roll out w the boys if you like.

    He said, she said.

    Never works in online communities. I'd rather we did not do that.

    I have zero reason to doubt the word of @IRJ , so exposing a member here with such a great lack of integrity should be done. Brand vendors as vendors, and brand liars as liars.



  • I am hoping he sees this thread and contacts me so we can fix everything. I will keep him anonymous for a few days.


  • Vendor

    https://creativemornings.com/talks/mike-monteiro--2/1

    This video is something you should watch.



  • I guess I should have forced him to use Paypal. I would have had a much easier time getting my money back.



  • I still haven't heard anything from him and he has been online several times since I posted this. 😮



  • Whoever this is, better wake up, because this is a god way to never get any work ever again.



  • Don't look at it like the job is incomplete.. Look at it like you got some or most of the job done for $150. Just cut him loose and pay someone else to finish it. You don't have to have someone necessarily redo everything in the project.

    Side note, I never charge or pay up front. That entails someone wants commitment or they are desperate. In my experience they are 50/50 but it's just bad taste. If it is a project that will take months, I charge for milestones. Short jobs are pay with an ending invoice. Everything is in writing so you are gonna get sued if you try to dine and dash.



  • @BBigford said:

    Don't look at it like the job is incomplete.. Look at it like you got some or most of the job done for $150. Just cut him loose and pay someone else to finish it. You don't have to have someone necessarily redo everything in the project.

    That doesn't work for all job types. Some things can easily be handed over. Others, not so much.



  • @BBigford said:

    Don't look at it like the job is incomplete.. Look at it like you got some or most of the job done for $150. Just cut him loose and pay someone else to finish it. You don't have to have someone necessarily redo everything in the project.

    Side note, I never charge or pay up front. That entails someone wants commitment or they are desperate. In my experience they are 50/50 but it's just bad taste. If it is a project that will take months, I charge for milestones. Short jobs are pay with an ending invoice. Everything is in writing so you are gonna get sued if you try to dine and dash.

    In reality I got nothing, and like scott said in this particular instance you need the original author to follow through on the process to make it work. Web design is mostly creativity and seeing things all the way to the end.



  • And how is the "volume" of creative work defined? Perhaps 99% of the work is in coming up with the idea. What if you pay someone to say write a song, or paint a chapel and they don't do a single thing but when it comes time to argue about what percentage to pay they say "well I came up with the song, I just didn't write it down, so I did 99% of the work, I need 99% of the money."

    There is no way to realistically measure how much work is done. The amount of work done on one side might easily be over 100% of the "anticipated" original work while the work turned over is equivalent of zero. Which side's percentage do you use?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    And how is the "volume" of creative work defined? Perhaps 99% of the work is in coming up with the idea. What if you pay someone to say write a song, or paint a chapel and they don't do a single thing but when it comes time to argue about what percentage to pay they say "well I came up with the song, I just didn't write it down, so I did 99% of the work, I need 99% of the money."

    There is no way to realistically measure how much work is done. The amount of work done on one side might easily be over 100% of the "anticipated" original work while the work turned over is equivalent of zero. Which side's percentage do you use?

    If you are going to commission art, you come up with the idea but never paint the painting. I would call that zero real gain because you have nothing in hand.

    Even if you go to another artist, he is going to interpret what you want in a different way.



  • @IRJ said:

    If you are going to commission art, you come up with the idea but never paint the painting. I would call that zero real gain because you have nothing in hand.

    But some would argue that nearly all of the work was completed. It's a dangerous thing when not delivering the product counts as partial effort.

    We just had a huge thread about that topic, too.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @IRJ said:

    If you are going to commission art, you come up with the idea but never paint the painting. I would call that zero real gain because you have nothing in hand.

    But some would argue that nearly all of the work was completed. It's a dangerous thing when not delivering the product counts as partial effort.

    We just had a huge thread about that topic, too.

    Do you believe I received anything of value? I sure as hell don't


Log in to reply