Password Complexity, Good or bad?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
This is kind of what I don't understand. We will use the business that lost $5 million as an example. They have one internet connection, and it went down for 30 minutes. They lost $5 million. In the real world they would have a second line set up for that scenario, but why would they if they should be given that $5 million from the company who didn't deliver the service for that 30 minutes. Why go through setting up another line (that's a bad analogy since it's not really much extra work but it's the point of extra work period) when you should just be able to get that money from the provider.
It's not about the $5 million, it's about the cost of the line. If that company pays $500/mo for that line and the ISP let's it drop for 30 minuts and $5m is lost... do you think that they will pay $499? How much should they pay for the service that was not continuous?
And this is a bit unfair, companies compete on equal footing with other companies, control SLAs and have many more options. We are talking about real people getting a service that they don't have that much control over.
They did have real control over it. This wasn't a hypothetical scenario. They were real people, who had the choice to buy the service from someone else.
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@johnhooks said:
Which is what happened in C also. This scenario would be correct if we just installed their stuff and only finished 99% of the installation. They didn't go from not having service to still not having service but it being 99% finished. Building the road is not the same as using the road and then it stops functioning for a short amount of time. That's why C is more like the scenario I was talking about. This is another reason why the road analogy doesn't work. This was an ongoing service that had a 30 minute interruption. A road doesn't have a small interruption that's fixed without your intervention.
You can totally describe an unfinished road that way. A working service with a brief interruption.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
Which is what happened in C also. This scenario would be correct if we just installed their stuff and only finished 99% of the installation. They didn't go from not having service to still not having service but it being 99% finished. Building the road is not the same as using the road and then it stops functioning for a short amount of time. That's why C is more like the scenario I was talking about. This is another reason why the road analogy doesn't work. This was an ongoing service that had a 30 minute interruption. A road doesn't have a small interruption that's fixed without your intervention.
You can totally describe an unfinished road that way. A working service with a brief interruption.
Not compared to what happened. For an apples to apples comparison, the road would have had to been working and then stopped. Their service was working, and then stopped, and then turned back on.
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@johnhooks said:
This might be where the disconnect is , and I probably should have explained better. These were not poor people. They were either retired with this being a second home or wealthy enough to live in these certain HOAs. They may be "poor" from the fact that they have no extra money per month to spend on anything, but that's 100% because of the price of the houses, plus the HOA dues (which were around $600 a month or what most people spend on a mortgage), but they are not poor from the fact that they don't have money.
Well, that helps in a way. It doesn't change the basics, but it makes me feel less bad for them and I assume that they are all trying to pull a fast one by claiming it is the reason that they had the service.
I truly get it, 99% of people this is a trivial interruption. But it is a real problem when services are treated as metered when people don't have choices about them.
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@johnhooks said:
They did have real control over it. This wasn't a hypothetical scenario. They were real people, who had the choice to buy the service from someone else.
Yes, but they bought it from this company. They have control to not pay next month but the question is about the month where they already paid for something that they did not receive.
There are really multiple carriers with full coverage of all the same stuff? I'm pretty far from having television service myself, but that sounds like a really rare thing. Television choice?
Granted, I managed to grow up and leave home before cable was even offered in my home town. ANd even today, there is only one provider.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
They did have real control over it. This wasn't a hypothetical scenario. They were real people, who had the choice to buy the service from someone else.
Yes, but they bought it from this company. They have control to not pay next month but the question is about the month where they already paid for something that they did not receive.
There are really multiple carriers with full coverage of all the same stuff? I'm pretty far from having television service myself, but that sounds like a really rare thing. Television choice?
Granted, I managed to grow up and leave home before cable was even offered in my home town. ANd even today, there is only one provider.
Ya actually Dish and DirectTV had much better options channel wise than we did. They were most likely cheaper too.
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@johnhooks said:
You can totally describe an unfinished road that way. A working service with a brief interruption.
Not compared to what happened. For an apples to apples comparison, the road would have had to been working and then stopped. Their service was working, and then stopped, and then turned back on.
But an unfinished road is working, and then stops, and then starts again. You just have to get over the hump.
Just like the television service, parts of it worked, parts of it didn't. The one dimension is physical and the other is time, but the end result is the same - it doesn't deliver on what was expected. It works, stops, then works again. It's the stops bit that is in question.
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@johnhooks said:
Ya actually Dish and DirectTV had much better options channel wise than we did. They were most likely cheaper too.
With all the same coverage . I dont know much abotu these things but I thought that local cable often had things that satellite cannot get.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
Ya actually Dish and DirectTV had much better options channel wise than we did. They were most likely cheaper too.
With all the same coverage . I dont know much abotu these things but I thought that local cable often had things that satellite cannot get.
Well, I don't know about the area I'm in now, but if you got a $20 antenna, it covered all of the local stuff for that area. They had their own local TV antenna stuff for the city.
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@johnhooks said:
Well, I don't know about the area I'm in now, but if you got a $20 antenna, it covered all of the local stuff for that area. They had their own local TV antenna stuff for the city.
Where I grew up I was lucky, like 20-24 OTA channels in the 70s and 80s. But just down the road from me... zip. Nada. Lots of people where I'm from had no television till cable came in sometime recently enough that I don't know when it was because I was gone.
It's regional, but there are definitely big areas with no options.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
You can totally describe an unfinished road that way. A working service with a brief interruption.
Not compared to what happened. For an apples to apples comparison, the road would have had to been working and then stopped. Their service was working, and then stopped, and then turned back on.
But an unfinished road is working, and then stops, and then starts again. You just have to get over the hump.
Just like the television service, parts of it worked, parts of it didn't. The one dimension is physical and the other is time, but the end result is the same - it doesn't deliver on what was expected. It works, stops, then works again. It's the stops bit that is in question.
Ah, but the part it isn't finished to wasn't working previously because it was never there. The traffic was the important aspect in the comparison. The traffic couldn't get to where it was going. If the road never went there to begin with, then it couldn't have stopped working because there was no road there anyway.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
Well, I don't know about the area I'm in now, but if you got a $20 antenna, it covered all of the local stuff for that area. They had their own local TV antenna stuff for the city.
Where I grew up I was lucky, like 20-24 OTA channels in the 70s and 80s. But just down the road from me... zip. Nada. Lots of people where I'm from had no television till cable came in sometime recently enough that I don't know when it was because I was gone.
It's regional, but there are definitely big areas with no options.
Being flat helped a lot I assume.
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@johnhooks said:
Ah, but the part it isn't finished to wasn't working previously because it was never there. The traffic was the important aspect in the comparison. The traffic couldn't get to where it was going. If the road never went there to begin with, then it couldn't have stopped working because there was no road there anyway.
Traffic could not get where it was going, the people could not watch the show that they wanted.
The traffic could successfully drive somewhere else and the people were successfully able to watch something else at a different time.
Seems the same to me. Both work for something other than the intended purpose.
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http://i.imgur.com/oZ9O0JR.jpg
I'll just leave this here...
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We are getting you up to the all time popular list!!
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Just made it, actually!
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I made the mistake of going to sleep, come back to find a debate about a Florida person who loses 30 minutes of TV, I'm like...how did we get from post 1 to that?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
I made the mistake of going to sleep, come back to find a debate about a Florida person who loses 30 minutes of TV, I'm like...how did we get from post 1 to that?
The magic of the mangoes.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
I made the mistake of going to sleep, come back to find a debate about a Florida person who loses 30 minutes of TV, I'm like...how did we get from post 1 to that?
The magic of the mangoes.
Squirrel!
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@scottalanmiller said:
The point of the whole discussion around .001% loss of service is....
If the change in work requirements force me to...
- Always carry my phone
- Always keep my phone charged
- Buy specific types of phones or be on specific carriers
- Modify my phone plans
- Take calls or texts at times that I am not working
- Protect my phone in a different way that before
- Buy more batteries, chargers, etc.
- Not travel to where my phone doesn't work
Or things like that, what is a .001% of the time thing can have big impacts.
It's like the US government in the 1930s. Sure, they only let cyanide into .01% of the alcohol going into food products. What's the big deal?
Are we mixing two conversations? one about service availability and one about 2FA?
As for your list of requirements, You only need to keep your phone around yourself when you do want to log in.. if you're not attempting to log in, then you don't care if your phone rings or not.. if you don't answer and respond correctly, the logon won't happen.
