Xen and Mdadm?
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input?
XenServer is open source and free. Just like Redhat if you want to pay for support you can. Even with XenServer you get all the updates for free. XenServer was "created" by Citrix, but they have since GPL'd (I think) the code and have given the code base to the Linux foundation. There is no obligation to pay for it.
But if you DO want to pay for it, I can sell it to you.
Yep, I'll burn a DVD and ship it to you for 200$. That being said some 3rd parties probably are a better avenue for support then Citrix would be.
Oh I wasn't offering support, I'll just sell XenServer.
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$20 for XenServer via download, for an extra $5 I'll ship you a DVD of it! Right to your door.
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I appreciate the help guys. I'll start experimenting with XenServer and see what I can break on a perfectly working system...
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input? I'm always looking at new options for cost effective deployment in the right environment.
It's all open and all free. XenServer has no way to not be free because the license protects you. Citrix didn't create XenServer, it's built from Linux' Xen project and CentOS. Citrix just bundled it and sold support. And even that is in the past. Xen, XenServer are both part of the Linux Foundation, are both GPL and that means free.
Ok, I'm seeing it more clearly now. What Citrix was selling, was basically just support (bundled with the software of course, but they aren't technically selling the software, because they can't).
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@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input? I'm always looking at new options for cost effective deployment in the right environment.
It's all open and all free. XenServer has no way to not be free because the license protects you. Citrix didn't create XenServer, it's built from Linux' Xen project and CentOS. Citrix just bundled it and sold support. And even that is in the past. Xen, XenServer are both part of the Linux Foundation, are both GPL and that means free.
Ok, I'm seeing it more clearly now. What Citrix was selling, was basically just support (bundled with the software of course, but they aren't technically selling the software, because they can't).
Almost right. They WERE selling the software, but it is also free. The GPL license that they are under allows EVERYONE to resell anything. So Xen, KVM, XenServer, CentOS, Ubuntu, etc. They are all under the GPL. You are allowed to give them away for free, the source is open. You are ALSO allowed to charge for them. You meaning EVERYONE. I can legally sell you Ubuntu, CentOS, XenServer, etc. So can Citrix. We are just... selling you something free. Does that make sense? I can charge you $1,000 for it, but you can turn around and give it away free or sell it yourself.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input? I'm always looking at new options for cost effective deployment in the right environment.
It's all open and all free. XenServer has no way to not be free because the license protects you. Citrix didn't create XenServer, it's built from Linux' Xen project and CentOS. Citrix just bundled it and sold support. And even that is in the past. Xen, XenServer are both part of the Linux Foundation, are both GPL and that means free.
Ok, I'm seeing it more clearly now. What Citrix was selling, was basically just support (bundled with the software of course, but they aren't technically selling the software, because they can't).
Almost right. They WERE selling the software, but it is also free. The GPL license that they are under allows EVERYONE to resell anything. So Xen, KVM, XenServer, CentOS, Ubuntu, etc. They are all under the GPL. You are allowed to give them away for free, the source is open. You are ALSO allowed to charge for them. You meaning EVERYONE. I can legally sell you Ubuntu, CentOS, XenServer, etc. So can Citrix. We are just... selling you something free. Does that make sense? I can charge you $1,000 for it, but you can turn around and give it away free or sell it yourself.
Okay, so Citrix didn't create XenServer (like taking Xen and making a distro specific to what they wanted to do with it). XenServer is essentially just a distro of Xen, that the Xen team created. Is that right? I'm trying to step back and see this clearly. If Xen is to Linux, I'm guessing XenServer is to Red Hat, or Ubuntu? It's just a distro of Xen? I've been looking at Xen wiki and The Xen Project. But I haven't found anything that says "here is the history of all things Xen so as not to confuse any parts of Xen itself."
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@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input? I'm always looking at new options for cost effective deployment in the right environment.
It's all open and all free. XenServer has no way to not be free because the license protects you. Citrix didn't create XenServer, it's built from Linux' Xen project and CentOS. Citrix just bundled it and sold support. And even that is in the past. Xen, XenServer are both part of the Linux Foundation, are both GPL and that means free.
Ok, I'm seeing it more clearly now. What Citrix was selling, was basically just support (bundled with the software of course, but they aren't technically selling the software, because they can't).
Almost right. They WERE selling the software, but it is also free. The GPL license that they are under allows EVERYONE to resell anything. So Xen, KVM, XenServer, CentOS, Ubuntu, etc. They are all under the GPL. You are allowed to give them away for free, the source is open. You are ALSO allowed to charge for them. You meaning EVERYONE. I can legally sell you Ubuntu, CentOS, XenServer, etc. So can Citrix. We are just... selling you something free. Does that make sense? I can charge you $1,000 for it, but you can turn around and give it away free or sell it yourself.
Okay, so Citrix didn't create XenServer (like taking Xen and making a distro specific to what they wanted to do with it). XenServer is essentially just a distro of Xen, that the Xen team created. Is that right? I'm trying to step back and see this clearly. If Xen is to Linux, I'm guessing XenServer is to Red Hat, or Ubuntu? It's just a distro of Xen? I've been looking at Xen wiki and The Xen Project. But I haven't found anything that says "here is the history of all things Xen so as not to confuse any parts of Xen itself."
Correct. Xen is the hypervisor and goes way back, it is nearly as old as VMware. Both of them predate hardware assistance on the CPU! Xen is the only one that has retained this heritage in its current design, it is the only hypervisor left that has a means of running without hardware assistance.
Xen is to Linux as XenServer is to RHEL. The CentOS version of XenServer is XCP. Identical, but without the Citrix branding. XenServer and XCP are a distro of Xen. Xen does nothing on its own, just like Linux.
Competing with XenServer / XCP are the native RHEL / CentOS, Ubuntu and Suse Xen stacks. You can do Xen from any of them (we were Suse/Xen for a long time) and this used to be popular because they were so much more up to date than XenServer. XS has fixed that for the most part and now that XenServer / XCP is a reference implementation of a Xen distro directly from the Xen team at the Linux Foundation there isn't much call for other versions.
Oracle VM is a head to head distro competitor with XenServer.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
Xen... XenServer... Xen server... Something I haven't looked into is the pricing. Xen is open source & free at the same time, that I have gathered. XenServer is something that Citrix has created, and charges for (open source, but not free... Red Hat in the same fashion. Open source, but not free). Xen server, any Xen server (can be open source and free, or can be XenServer... It's just a vague term). Anyone have any input? I'm always looking at new options for cost effective deployment in the right environment.
It's all open and all free. XenServer has no way to not be free because the license protects you. Citrix didn't create XenServer, it's built from Linux' Xen project and CentOS. Citrix just bundled it and sold support. And even that is in the past. Xen, XenServer are both part of the Linux Foundation, are both GPL and that means free.
Ok, I'm seeing it more clearly now. What Citrix was selling, was basically just support (bundled with the software of course, but they aren't technically selling the software, because they can't).
Almost right. They WERE selling the software, but it is also free. The GPL license that they are under allows EVERYONE to resell anything. So Xen, KVM, XenServer, CentOS, Ubuntu, etc. They are all under the GPL. You are allowed to give them away for free, the source is open. You are ALSO allowed to charge for them. You meaning EVERYONE. I can legally sell you Ubuntu, CentOS, XenServer, etc. So can Citrix. We are just... selling you something free. Does that make sense? I can charge you $1,000 for it, but you can turn around and give it away free or sell it yourself.
Okay, so Citrix didn't create XenServer (like taking Xen and making a distro specific to what they wanted to do with it). XenServer is essentially just a distro of Xen, that the Xen team created. Is that right? I'm trying to step back and see this clearly. If Xen is to Linux, I'm guessing XenServer is to Red Hat, or Ubuntu? It's just a distro of Xen? I've been looking at Xen wiki and The Xen Project. But I haven't found anything that says "here is the history of all things Xen so as not to confuse any parts of Xen itself."
Correct. Xen is the hypervisor and goes way back, it is nearly as old as VMware. Both of them predate hardware assistance on the CPU! Xen is the only one that has retained this heritage in its current design, it is the only hypervisor left that has a means of running without hardware assistance.
Xen is to Linux as XenServer is to RHEL. The CentOS version of XenServer is XCP. Identical, but without the Citrix branding. XenServer and XCP are a distro of Xen. Xen does nothing on its own, just like Linux.
Competing with XenServer / XCP are the native RHEL / CentOS, Ubuntu and Suse Xen stacks. You can do Xen from any of them (we were Suse/Xen for a long time) and this used to be popular because they were so much more up to date than XenServer. XS has fixed that for the most part and now that XenServer / XCP is a reference implementation of a Xen distro directly from the Xen team at the Linux Foundation there isn't much call for other versions.
Oracle VM is a head to head distro competitor with XenServer.
Ok, that makes a lot more sense. So if you want XenServer, you have to go to Citrix and pay for it, right? I did a proof of concept with XenServer in the past, and went to Citrix for the software & licensing. What I'm understanding, is that Citrix designed XenServer, and it is a paid for solution (like RHEL requires payment, and service is an optional/additional payment).
Thanks for taking the time to explain this by the way.
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Xen, XenServer, they are both free.
You'd be buying the software (which is offered for free) support with it from Citrix, but it's still there for free.
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@BBigford said:
Ok, that makes a lot more sense. So if you want XenServer, you have to go to Citrix and pay for it, right?
No, there is nothing that requires money anywhere in the Xen ecosystem. Nor is there any hypervisor on the market for which you pay any money.
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@BBigford said:
What I'm understanding, is that Citrix designed XenServer, and it is a paid for solution (like RHEL requires payment, and service is an optional/additional payment).
Even RHEL is free. Red Hat doesn't provide a free download of it, but they have no means of not having it be free. Nothing built on Linux is non-free, it has no way to not be free. RH just doesn't have to pay to give it to you. Same thing with Xen. Xen and all products built on it are free, period. XenServer has always been free, Citrix just didn't used to advertise how to get it for free. Now they do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
What I'm understanding, is that Citrix designed XenServer, and it is a paid for solution (like RHEL requires payment, and service is an optional/additional payment).
Even RHEL is free. Red Hat doesn't provide a free download of it, but they have no means of not having it be free. Nothing built on Linux is non-free, it has no way to not be free. RH just doesn't have to pay to give it to you. Same thing with Xen. Xen and all products built on it are free, period. XenServer has always been free, Citrix just didn't used to advertise how to get it for free. Now they do.
If you want RHEL, aren't you required to purchase a license (~$799) and bind it with a subscription in the customer online portal? That's how I've always done it...
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@BBigford said:
If you want RHEL, aren't you required to purchase a license (~$799) and bind it with a subscription in the customer online portal? That's how I've always done it...
Nope, they have no means of making you pay for RHEL, they don't own the software that they are selling, how could they demand that you pay for it?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
If you want RHEL, aren't you required to purchase a license (~$799) and bind it with a subscription in the customer online portal? That's how I've always done it...
Nope, they have no means of making you pay for RHEL, they don't own the software that they are selling, how could they demand that you pay for it?
Where would someone download a free copy? I've always been told by any admin, "Red Hat requires you pay for it. If you want free, download CentOS."
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CentOS and Scientific Linux are both people just downloading RHEL and providing it for free. Red Hat is allowed to keep them from labelling it Red Hat, but they can't stop them from giving it away (nor do they want to.) Red Hat actively encourages this, to the point that they bought CentOS to make sure that they could ensure quality and speed on the project. CentOS is literally just a free copy of RHEL. But even RHEL if you have a copy you can just give it away.
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@BBigford said:
Where would someone download a free copy? I've always been told by any admin, "Red Hat requires you pay for it. If you want free, download CentOS."
Yes, Red Hat requires that you pay for it. But don't confuse that with it not being free. Red Hat isn't going to give it to you for free, but you can get it from anyone who has a copy for free. The product itself is free, but getting Red Hat to hand it to you is not free, you are paying for them to hand it to you.
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@scottalanmiller said:
But even RHEL if you have a copy you can just give it away.So it doesn't check in with the Red Hat activation, to ensure people are paying for it (thinking of Microsoft & Windows)...
By the way, not trying to hijack this thread. Kind of spun off from Xen...
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Think of RHEL like bottled water. Is water free? Yes. Is it free if I put it in a bottle? Yes. Can I choose to sell that free thing to you if I want? Yes. Does that make water not free? No.
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@BBigford said:
So it doesn't check in with the Red Hat activation, to ensure people are paying for it (thinking of Microsoft & Windows)...
No, there is no check. CentOS is a binary identical copy of RHEL, as is Scientific Linux. If RHEL checked that, they would too!
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@BBigford said:
By the way, not trying to hijack this thread. Kind of spun off from Xen...
At the core it is still an attempt to understand the GPL licensing that equally affects Xen and Linux.
