911 Dialing option for remote facility



  • We have a remote facility in Georgia that we have an MPLS as the go between there and California. They have Nortel 1104e IP Phones there that use the MPLS to connect to our Nortel/Avaya BCM450 here in California and then out our PRI to make outbound calls. The issue is that when the GA site dials 911 for an emergency the call center shows the call coming from our address in CA and wants to send help to CA. I would like to know your thoughts on the best solution for handling multiple sites like this. Are we looking down the path of a new phone system at this point?
    Thanks!
    Edit: sorry i dont know how i got this posted into IT Careers.



  • Tagging @art_of_shred @Mike-Ralston @Minion-Queen

    Edit: Moved to IT Discussions.



  • Does the site in GA have any local numbers?


  • Banned

    Is the outbound dialing number the same for both sites? Or can you have different numbers outbound?

    Different numbers should have different addresses for emergency services.

    e.g if they dial out from Georgia they have a Georgia number. If they dial out from Cali, they use the main office number.


  • Banned

    Couple things..

    You need to make sure the you have lines setup as a branch office for that side.

    Second is you need a call pattern and failover 911 lines besides the PRI incase the MPLS is down. With Cisco this is all done with SRST and Route patterns.


  • Banned

    @Breffni-Potter said:

    Is the outbound dialing number the same for both sites? Or can you have different numbers outbound?

    Different numbers should have different addresses for emergency services.

    e.g if they dial out from Georgia they have a Georgia number. If they dial out from Cali, they use the main office number.

    They don't need to be all different if you have a 911 mask.



  • @gjacobse said:

    Does the site in GA have any local numbers?

    They do have one fax line.



  • @gjacobse said:

    Tagging @art_of_shred @Mike-Ralston @Minion-Queen

    Edit: Moved to IT Discussions.

    Thank you! Sorry about that!



  • @Breffni-Potter said:

    Is the outbound dialing number the same for both sites? Or can you have different numbers outbound?

    Different numbers should have different addresses for emergency services.

    e.g if they dial out from Georgia they have a Georgia number. If they dial out from Cali, they use the main office number.

    It is the same. Management wanted to to show the "same" number when calling out from both sites.



  • @Jason said:

    Couple things..

    You need to make sure the you have lines setup as a branch office for that side.

    Second is you need a call pattern and failover 911 lines besides the PRI incase the MPLS is down. With Cisco this is all done with SRST and Route patterns.

    Good point on if the MPLS goes down. If it does go down they are screwed!


  • Banned

    @JoeyJakubiak said:

    @Breffni-Potter said:

    Is the outbound dialing number the same for both sites? Or can you have different numbers outbound?

    Different numbers should have different addresses for emergency services.

    e.g if they dial out from Georgia they have a Georgia number. If they dial out from Cali, they use the main office number.

    It is the same. Management wanted to to show the "same" number when calling out from both sites.

    That's not unusal. Cisco has something just for this http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/unified-communications/unified-survivable-remote-site-telephony/index.html

    Keep in mind you still need local DSP in the event of WAN fail for 911 to work. Not sure what nortel has for this but google isn't turning up much.. it doesn't even support e911



  • @JoeyJakubiak said:

    @Jason said:

    Couple things..

    You need to make sure the you have lines setup as a branch office for that side.

    Second is you need a call pattern and failover 911 lines besides the PRI incase the MPLS is down. With Cisco this is all done with SRST and Route patterns.

    Good point on if the MPLS goes down. If it does go down they are screwed!

    You need to reach out to your Nortel provider and see if they have a local device that your phones can attach to for 911 purposes only.

    In my situation I have two Mitel 5000 PBXs, all calls flow through the one in the main office, but the fax line is plugged into the local Mitel at the remote location. If someone in that site dials 911, it kills whatever is on the fax line at that time and then dial 911 there locally.

    The 5000 in my case was included with my system due to the number of phones I was buying. Since you have a preexisting setup, you'll probably need to buy another piece of gear.



  • if you are looking to a whole new phone system, you could do with two FreePBXs, one on each side.



  • @Dashrender Oh ok cool! I will see if there is such a device for the nortel. Could I put freepbx on the remote site first and still keep the call ID the same for both sites? Not sure if I can get them to approve a full phone system just yet.



  • @JoeyJakubiak said:

    @Dashrender Oh ok cool! I will see if there is such a device for the nortel. Could I put freepbx on the remote site first and still keep the call ID the same for both sites? Not sure if I can get them to approve a full phone system just yet.

    Maybe - that would work as follows.

    Build FreePBX for remote location, change all phones at that site to use FreePBX, create connection trunks between FreePBX and Nortel at main location. Create dialing rules in FreePBX and Nortel to route calls as needed (if possible). Install device allowing FreePBX to control Fax line. Setup 911 rules on FreePBX

    This is a very high over view of what would need to be done.



  • @Dashrender so what you're saying is go with a whole new phone system ha ha



  • @JoeyJakubiak said:

    @Dashrender so what you're saying is go with a whole new phone system ha ha

    Nope - not saying that. If I was in your shoes, I'd definitely check to see if Nortel has a solution for you first. If not, then it's time for management to to help you make a lists of what your needs are and start looking for solutions (which is why you came here in the first place 🙂 )



  • You have no need to attach to a local device.

    Simply update your outbound routing for calls from Georgia to spoof the CID number as your fax number whenever they dial 911. It is a very simple thing to do with Asterisk or 3CX



  • Now, in the event of MPLS failure, you have no phone service at all. This is no different than a PRI or POTS be down and making it not possible for you to dial 911.

    Consult local laws for the amount of reliability you are required to have for 911.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @JoeyJakubiak said:

    @Dashrender so what you're saying is go with a whole new phone system ha ha

    Nope - not saying that. If I was in your shoes, I'd definitely check to see if Nortel has a solution for you first. If not, then it's time for management to to help you make a lists of what your needs are and start looking for solutions (which is why you came here in the first place 🙂 )

    Sorry I was trying to be funny and totally blew it ha ha. I will definitely see what Nortel has to offer. If they don't have anything I know where we are headed next.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    You have no need to attach to a local device.

    Simply update your outbound routing for calls from Georgia to spoof the CID number as your fax number whenever they dial 911. It is a very simple thing to do with Asterisk or 3CX

    Hey good idea! I'm going to see if the nortel can do this.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    Now, in the event of MPLS failure, you have no phone service at all. This is no different than a PRI or POTS be down and making it not possible for you to dial 911.

    Consult local laws for the amount of reliability you are required to have for 911.

    Great point! It's only a matter of time before someone digs up the line or hits the phone pole.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    Now, in the event of MPLS failure, you have no phone service at all. This is no different than a PRI or POTS be down and making it not possible for you to dial 911.

    Consult local laws for the amount of reliability you are required to have for 911.

    Man I would assume that his MPLS and his POTS lines are two separate things and just because one is down I would not expect the other to be down. So, in that case a local device would solve this problem.

    I only went straight to a local device because of the possible loss of the MPLS connection. If the company decides that on the occasion where MPLS fails that the backup is the use of personal cell phones, that's fine (assuming the law is OK with it) and then JB's idea of faking the CID as the Fax number would be fine.

    What I don't know - even though it's faking the CID, will it route it to the correct 911 center?



  • @Dashrender said:

    Man I would assume that his MPLS and his POTS lines are two separate things and just because one is down I would not expect the other to be down. So, in that case a local device would solve this problem.

    I know of no situation anywhere where a POTS line does not cover you for 911 responsibility. Imagine the implications if it did not!!

    MPLS is totally different and means you have added points of failure and that would be potentially your responsibility, POTS is not.



  • Are missing my point. There is no reason that you HAVE to use POTS unless there is a specific local law.

    You have to provide 911, yes.

    My point was that the MPLS failing is no different than a PRI or POTS failing for a business without VoIP.

    The people still cannot call out if the service is down.

    There are no laws anywhere that I am aware of that require multiple paths to 911 beyond the primary phone system.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    Man I would assume that his MPLS and his POTS lines are two separate things and just because one is down I would not expect the other to be down. So, in that case a local device would solve this problem.

    I know of no situation anywhere where a POTS line does not cover you for 911 responsibility. Imagine the implications if it did not!!

    MPLS is totally different and means you have added points of failure and that would be potentially your responsibility, POTS is not.

    Sure, if your POTS line fails, you as the business aren't going to be in any trouble with the law, but that's not what I was talking about.

    @JaredBusch said:

    Now, in the event of MPLS failure, you have no phone service at all. This is no different than a PRI or POTS be down and making it not possible for you to dial 911.

    Consult local laws for the amount of reliability you are required to have for 911.

    I'm not entirely sure what JB is getting at here - If the MPLS lines fail - the company is still potentially responsible for having a way to reach 911. Since the company has a POTS line, systems could be put in place to use that POTS line to call 911, regardless of the MPLS line.

    Heck, the law may be OK with - when calling 911 - only call from the fax machine, which would have a princess phone on it. but then again, maybe not.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    There are no laws anywhere that I am aware of that require multiple paths to 911 beyond the primary phone system.

    None that I know of. Theoretically, there might be. I've not seen it come up before.



  • @Dashrender said:

    I'm not entirely sure what JB is getting at here - If the MPLS lines fail - the company is still potentially responsible for having a way to reach 911. Since the company has a POTS line, systems could be put in place to use that POTS line to call 911, regardless of the MPLS line.

    That's the question. They could be but we've never encountered a situation where they are. It's pretty much just hypothetical.



  • @JaredBusch said:

    Are missing my point. There is no reason that you HAVE to use POTS unless there is a specific local law.

    You have to provide 911, yes.

    My point was that the MPLS failing is no different than a PRI or POTS failing for a business without VoIP.

    The people still cannot call out if the service is down.

    There are no laws anywhere that I am aware of that require multiple paths to 911 beyond the primary phone system.

    I don't know - but VOIP via the internet may not be allowed as the only path to 911 - maybe it is, I just don't know.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @JaredBusch said:

    Are missing my point. There is no reason that you HAVE to use POTS unless there is a specific local law.

    You have to provide 911, yes.

    My point was that the MPLS failing is no different than a PRI or POTS failing for a business without VoIP.

    The people still cannot call out if the service is down.

    There are no laws anywhere that I am aware of that require multiple paths to 911 beyond the primary phone system.

    I don't know - but VOIP via the internet may not be allowed as the only path to 911 - maybe it is, I just don't know.

    Of course it is. That is what e911 is all about.


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