Apple is fighting the FBI
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Who says they haven't..?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because they haven't thought of it? Or that Apple has already said either you can make our phones, or earn nothing from us.
One of the other...
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@Dashrender said:
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because Foxconn is the single largest contributor to the Chinese economy and Apple has the means and the will to move all production from China to Taiwan overnight. Don't think that Apple wouldn't hold the country over a barrel and bring their economy to its knees. They'd sweep other manufacturers along with them, rebuild Foxconn's resources and shut down handheld consumer device manufacturing in China. Google has been inching that way as it is, together they'd make the move happen.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because Foxconn is the single largest contributor to the Chinese economy and Apple has the means and the will to move all production from China to Taiwan overnight. Don't think that Apple wouldn't hold the country over a barrel and bring their economy to its knees. They'd sweep other manufacturers along with them, rebuild Foxconn's resources and shut down handheld consumer device manufacturing in China. Google has been inching that way as it is, together they'd make the move happen.
Exactly...
China says Apple, do this, Apple says China, Economy goodbye.
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Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
As for Apple - now that I do believe.
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@Dashrender said:
Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
You don't think that those huge factories in Dallas for making phones in the US aren't an attempt to be free of Chinese control? What do you think they are, empty shells just pretending to make phones?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
You don't think that those huge factories in Dallas for making phones in the US aren't an attempt to be free of Chinese control? What do you think they are, empty shells just pretending to make phones?
I know not of what you speak.
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@Dashrender said:
I know not of what you speak.
Three years ago Google started moving phone production from China to Fort Worth. They built the largest factories in North Texas and hired thousands to start making Motorola phones there instead of in China. It was right at the same time that Apple started making US factories - it's a hedge strategy to make sure that China knows that they have the skills in the US to make phones and computers. For about a decade and a half, the US actually lose the skills necessary to make them, so China actually had us over a barrel. Those two went crazy investing in American manufacturing systems to make sure that while the majority kept being made in China, that if push came to shove, the US could do it (with time to ramp up.) Apple makes some high end computers in the US, Google makes their top end phone here.
When I moved out of Dallas it was the big place hiring left and right. So many jobs moved into the area.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I know not of what you speak.
Three years ago Google started moving phone production from China to Fort Worth. They built the largest factories in North Texas and hired thousands to start making Motorola phones there instead of in China. It was right at the same time that Apple started making US factories - it's a hedge strategy to make sure that China knows that they have the skills in the US to make phones and computers. For about a decade and a half, the US actually lose the skills necessary to make them, so China actually had us over a barrel. Those two went crazy investing in American manufacturing systems to make sure that while the majority kept being made in China, that if push came to shove, the US could do it (with time to ramp up.) Apple makes some high end computers in the US, Google makes their top end phone here.
When I moved out of Dallas it was the big place hiring left and right. So many jobs moved into the area.
Awesome!!
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
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@Dashrender said:
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
Vendor lockin (where vendor = country.) Just simple, normal business practices.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
Vendor lockin (where vendor = country.) Just simple, normal business practices.
oh, well that's not really related to the issue at hand then. But does play in their favor in the current issue.
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@Dashrender said:
oh, well that's not really related to the issue at hand then. But does play in their favor in the current issue.
I thought that was the very issue at hand. I'm not even clear how you think it isn't exactly what was discussed.
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I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
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@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
You pretty much just laid it out. Smart phone manufacturing is a huge part of the Chinese economy. If the Chinese government said "we want a backdoor", Apple or Google would just have to threaten to pack up and leave to get them to back down on that demand. Especially since they have shown they can be manufactured in other locations.
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@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
LOL. Yup, one is the power to stop the other.
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Encrypt everything, all the bloody things. We stand to benefit as a free and open society; opposite being true for those who rule by force.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
LOL. Yup, one is the power to stop the other.
Now this is of course assuming Apple cares about people's privacy in China more than they care about selling phones in china.
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@Dashrender said:
Now this is of course assuming Apple cares about people's privacy in China more than they care about selling phones in china.
Only if you assume that they are exclusive. I totally assume that Apple cares about selling phones. I assume that privacy everywhere is critical to Apple having the sales that they do.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Now this is of course assuming Apple cares about people's privacy in China more than they care about selling phones in china.
Only if you assume that they are exclusive. I totally assume that Apple cares about selling phones. I assume that privacy everywhere is critical to Apple having the sales that they do.
what do you mean "privacy everywhere is critical to Apple having the sales that they do"?
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@Dashrender said:
what do you mean "privacy everywhere is critical to Apple having the sales that they do"?
Apple's stern protection of customer privacy is a key reason that people buy Apple phones. If Apple turns off privacy to make sales in China, they might lose sales both in China and abroad. Privacy is a feature, like anything else.
What if China said that "Safari" was a feature that had to be blocked in China. Would people buy a phone that could not browser the Internet? Just because it is allowed to be sold somewhere doesn't mean that it will sell there.
Privacy and trust are features that people pay a lot for. They are key drivers for Apple sales. Take them away and will people keep buying Apple phones like they do?
